Why do you play?

[Wasabi]

Bob, I doubt a single poll to measure the expectations of the footbag freestyle community (on modified, no less) is substantial to fulfill a better understanding of the results displayed, as well as a better understanding of how the sport is advancing. It should be regarded that there are players that do not surf modified, and they are a vaster community than those that do sign in to this footbag site. Also, it is not too far to say that such a poll that details the expectations of players in the sport is biased in any sense of the word. It is best to take the results with a grain of salt.

However, the argument still stands on what the overall competitive volition that players have in the present day. That is a very difficult matter to judge accordingly and accurately, because although the sport has spread within a globalized spectrum that many a country has a good amount of freestyle players, to record them and their level of play takes a localized effort and a consistent united global effort to keep track of everything (in this case, player opinions and mentality). And to detail their mentality towards footbag is a sporadic analysis as well, because player opinion can have many variables that go against and beyond our expectations. Footbag dot org and modified dot in, as well as other footbag forums, take a neocosmopolitan approach in gathering like-minded individuals in their interest for this sport, but in that also fails to detail a consistency for all players that have an interest in the sport within a globalized localism (because there are other variables to consider; not owning a computer; little or no interest in surfing the internet; resentment/spite against modified). What we have to judge (or CAN judge) are the results of regional, national and World competitions of footbag which localized the global spectrum of the sport and attracts players, and it is there that we can speculate how players are advancing, and how the sport will advance. This is an inaccurate approach, but it is what we can do to have a better grasp on the level of play footbaggers have, and their mentality and performance through competition.

It can also be said that what we perceive in terms of performance, through video uploads of competitions and personal sessions, and even through personal experience, offer a biased approach as well. Novice, "intermediate" and pro/open players may or may not have a camera available to record their own sessions, or are willing to expose themselves over the internet, therefore don't always allow a governance on the detail of how the sport is advancing for most players. And, in the case of the one recording performances via camera, the bias can be posited of who is being recorded (top tier and open players are likely to be captured on film while the majority of attendees/players are placed aside within their own privatized space). Also, some competitions can be troubled to have a camera or not to detail the performance of the competition, which may or may not be available on the internet as well (no exposure means little to no accessibility that the record of competition and player performance would be accurately detailed; otherwise a textual "analysis" is used to supplement this disadvantage).

As I have mentioned above, what we can judge are the results of competition, which are inaccurate but detail the performance of most players. This year's US Open displayed pretty unique results, especially within the intermediate category where competitors hit many a guiltless level / advanced level of tricks. However, why those players competed in intermediate and not open and the concern of eliminating the intermediate category is still hotly debated. What we do know is that footbagger play level expectancy is increasing and advancing. This is not to say that routines, sick trick(s) and shred 30 detail a specific measure of player level advancement and their overall performance, but we can grasp an slight understanding of how those players are doing.

Finally, I just want to mention this: this poll was made within a general forum on modified dot in. Player responses on this poll can be biased, and can be made from footbaggers that have yet to reach an understanding of what guiltless/genuine footbag performance is like. Their votes may not have been made with a wholehearted intent on dedicating themselves for competition or improving themselves, which can be haphazard to our perception of the results. I don't know what you might have been expecting from this poll, but it is pretty clear that you shouldn't ask more of what the poll is asking and the results it has shown to us.

[Rieferman]

well of course a quick poll isn't accurate, and of course modified is among the least scientific places ever to hold a poll, and of course I'm polling but a small portion of those that have ever actually picked up a hacky sack, but it's still OK to run the poll, and it's still OK to be surprised at the results. But thanks for explaining it all to me (and in sooooo many words.. [actually, I confess that I couldn't read it all, sorry!]). ha ha



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Jon, sorry to hear about the coffee machine. I think you should submit a complaint to HR, because that's just cruel and unusual punishment on a Monday.

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Anyhow, back to issue at hand. Let me restate it really basically:

I was under the impression (from last 10+ years of knowing lots of players and being an event organizer and from reading and talking to people etc.) that many more people played either for fun or personal gain, and that not as many played expressly to become good enough to be a "pro competitor". Therefore, although I understand that modified is less than scientific, and that it only represents a portion of the hacking public, I was surprised to see that the majority of responses to a simple poll indicated that PRO competition is a driver for a lot of people.

All I am asking right now is: Assuming that this poll has at least some relation to reality, is anyone else surprised, or did everyone think that competition was so important?

[habitat]

It's all about the comps broh. How else is footbag going to become the next big thing without proh comps. The people who are playing for the fun the game or personal achievement are the reason why this sport is being held back from growing. Damn casuals, you ruin it for us prohs. Think of all the money and girls we can have!

[LEGOMAN]

It's all about the comps broh. How else is footbag going to become the next big thing without prohs. The people who are playing for the fun the game or personal achievement are the reason why this sport is being held back from growing. Damn casuals, you ruin it for us prohs. Think of all the money and girls we can have!

so true. YOU GET A BROFIVE

[C-Fan]

I hadn't posted in this thread until today, because I didn't quite understand the options in the poll. After reading Bob's post, I think I understand the question better, but I still have trouble answering it.

I was under the impression ...that many more people played either for fun or personal gain, and that not as many played expressly to become good enough to be a "pro competitor".

The problem I had, is that I don't see these 2 things as mutually exclusive. I like to compete, and I like to challenge myself through competition, but I do this because it is fun for me. Competition is a form of fun and personal gain. When I practice a routine, and finally do it well in competition, that's fun. It's not an either/or proposition.

On that note, I think it's very hard to achieve the level of an open competitor unless you are having fun.

[Wasabi]

Sorry for the wordiness, Bob. I just wanted to dissect the confusion as to why you believed there there was a high majority of individuals that have the goal to improve and compete in accordance to the sample group on modified, and explain as to why the poll didn't reach up to your expectations.

I have the same ideal as Ken, although I don't have the level of play that he has. However, I enjoy playing footbag to improve myself, and I like to compete so that I can gain a certain amount of experience to perform well at tournaments. The competition experience is just another step for me to improve myself more and more, and I enjoy that experience and exposure.

Of course you always have the stupid ****ty feeling that you wish you could have played better during competition (at least it is for me; I've always been placed at a low tier due to poor competition performance), but I feel even that is an important and necessary concept for players to understand so that they can better themselves in the sport. And by bettering yourself you advance the sport and attract more potential players. And even then, no matter what you do with footbag, as long as you're having fun nothing else really matters too much.

But yeah, whether a person has a competitive spirit or not is a variable that isn't set in stone. Competing can be a motivating factor for improvement, but so is self-gain and making an impression onto others outside of competition. What's important is that you play to have fun.

[mc]

I play because of the feeling I get when I'm playing with good control and style and strength, whether it's in front of a crowd, with a few close friends, or by myself. I seriously love busting footbag tricks. I really need to start training again, because it's not nearly as gratifying when I'm feeling weak and out of control, like I felt yesterday

I play because I'm good at it and I like to show off while being creative. I've gotten a lot of positive feedback about footbag over the years, so, on the whole, it's a really positive, fun experience for me.

[Rieferman]

Ken, The poll options allow for your position I believe since I ask everyone to answer based on which choice is closest (not 'which is an exact match'.. and I acknowledge in my post that there are many possible other choices.)

In your situation, I would say option 2 is the closes >> you train with the intent to compete. That's not to say you don't have fun, but you definitely have a competition focus, so in a less-than-perfect poll, that'd be the choice. That's just my take from knowing you.

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Matt, your response is basically what I thought almost everyone's would be. Therefore I expected a huge number of option 3 votes, followed by option 1 votes, with a trailing number of option 2 votes.

[Jeremy]

I think the reason you didn't get those results Bob is because the poll answers are so bad.

I am sure lots of people train and have some intention to compete, but that competition is not the main thing that drives them. Of course there are a number of people like me, who barely train, but do compete, and when they do play, it couldn't be called "casual hacking" at all. What should I answer - if I'm not training, so obviously not training with a goal to compete at a "pro level" or to improve with no intention to compete, but at my last 2 competitions I was of a level that I beat somebody who has made it into the top 10 at worlds just recently (although not in Dan's best events it should be said).

The other thing, of course, is that I view footbag as a sport, and when I was training, I treated it as a sport. That meant that I trained hard, because that's what I do with all sports, and I set very specific goals rather than general ones like; "I want to be at a 'pro level'" or "I want to always improve." I did want both those things, but they were not goals - my goals were more things like; "I want to hit 5 unique triple dex fearless" or "I want to drop less than 5 times in my routine." The fact that I trained hard was just because that's what you do in sport, and my attitude has always been to do everything fully or not at all. The reason I competed was because that's what makes it a sport, and the reason I've started competing again this year is because events look better with more numbers and higher level competitors.

To answer the topic question seriously; I play because I love the feeling of being in a run - of being focused and getting rid of all the other concerns and thoughts in your head. I play because footbag was easier to take up than rock climbing or other sports that would be the same (for me at the time when I started playing). I play because it was a sport I was good at that didn't result in broken bones or not being able to walk up stairs the day after training (although now my knees hurt after every time I play, and never hurt doing anything else). I play because I know that if you want to get good at something, you need to do it a lot, no matter how little motivation you have, and at one point I wanted to "get good" and so I train now despite that no longer being a motivation, because that's what you have to do. I play because it keeps me fit and healthy, and I value those things very highly. I play because I've been doing it for over 7 years now, and I don't know how to stop.

[Rieferman]

thanks jeremy you're the best

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sorry for shitty poll, please disregard, clearly not what I intended

[Iron Clad Ben]

sorry for shitty poll, please disregard, clearly not what I intended

Eh whatever, can't make everyone happy. You're also not going to be able to think up every conceivable answer to question when you ask it.

The important thing here is we got a discussion going. After much reading here, and thinking on my part I actually have a decent answer to the question... "why do you play?"

I still to play to progress. Having started late in the game (around 23) I never really felt like I had a shot being a "proh" or in BAP. I just had fun playing. I had fun learning. I had fun getting better. I still enjoy all those things. I train somewhat, but mostly I still just shred. I'm happy with my progress. I just hit 4 new tricks last night, that was an awesome feeling. There's nothing like that feeling.

So I play just to play and hang out with the "brohs" (I looove tournaments and jamz who doesn't?). But I also play to get better. I do NOT play to win competition, even though I do enjoy participating in competition (even though I almost always choke, except for my last tourney).

This might be a somewhat geeky analogy, but here goes. Kind of like how it's fun to level-up and progress your character in an RPG, I feel the same way about footbag. It's kind of analogous to that. You enjoy just slowly getting more powerful, and growing and learning along the way.

It's not about the end result, because that would be retirement. It's a journey. Enjoy the process. Enjoy the journey. That is footbag to me.

[Jeremy]

I think generally for polls, the best thing to do is to make the questions as general as possible. I would re-word it like this;


Which of these motivates you the most to play footbag?

1. Hanging out with friends

2. Training for competitions

3. Just trying to get better than my current level

4. None of those things motivate me at all

[Jorden]

I am actively training with the goal of being a 'pro level' competitor.

[Jeremy]

Good luck with that Jorden. I'm sure if you keep at it you'll get there eventually.

[Ian Brill]

1) It's a constant in my life. It's something that I have done with varying degrees of seriousness throughout my life (last 15 years at least,) but something that I have thoroughly enjoyed for the most part. You could probably determine that quality of my life in other areas by how well my game was at any given time. The purpose for me is organizational, and one of exercise that is comparable in approach (I am assuming) to Tai Chi.

2) To keep the pounds off. Because I'll eat my Spicy Chicken sandwhich from Wendy's with a slice of cheese on it.

3) As a social thing. It happens to be that at least four of my most cherished friends are people that I have met through either NYFA or SCF, though as I get older I've learned to try not to impose friendships out of Footbag as much as I'll let them occur on their own. There are some Footbag players that I don't speak to regularly though that I greatly appreciate (such as the dude that started this thread, and this cat from Jersey that does all of these weird cross-body tricks.)

4) Because it's fun. Actually, this is my number one reason. If you asked last week it would be that I am stubborn and I want to hit all of my basic sets before I die, but the truth is I love learning and this sport is embodies the spirit of so many things in life that I already loved. And, thus, it's a lot of fun.

[Wasabi]

Kind of like how it's fun to level-up and progress your character in an RPG, I feel the same way about footbag. It's kind of analogous to that. You enjoy just slowly getting more powerful, and growing and learning along the way.

Ben, I've been vanquishing "DLOs" and "Whirls" for the past few weeks with minor success. The drop rates are deplorable, but understandable to say the least. Also, I just got the Quantum03s a month ago, but have yet to achieve the level to equip them just yet so they've been stuck in my inventory ever since. So, I'm still stuck in my Quantum02s. Still, I've been aggroing it out and trying to raise my stats as an Intermediate Class Footbagger, hoping to reach Guiltless within a few sessions or so.

[eustoma]

I play to improve, and if that ever leads into being a pro level player, then that's that

[Tjuggles]

A big reason that I play goes way back to when I first started playing with Greg Nelson, around 2000. Seeing him shred and watching his movements was something not too short of a blessing. I don't see anyone that has a style like his.

Also that was the time when I had my first tastes of "The Zone". Ever since then, I can't stay away. (I admit recently that I have been putting footbag on the backburner a bit though; kicking 3 times a week.)

I play because I enjoy pushing myself for those few seconds where my peripheral disappears, and the world is me and the bag. The Zone.

[xpawel18x]

I don't play to be a pro or to compete, I shred because:
1. It's Fun
2. It's Simple
3. Can do it anywhere
4. Grabs attention
5. Good Workout
6. Relieves stress

[Yellow Watchbagger]

i read every post. it was hard, my eyes hurt, and im tired but i noticed that no one said (to this degree) that all u need is a tiny footbag and ur set. i love how simple it is, yet how complex it can be. i love learning new tricks, and constantly improving. i really just like how u can throw a bag up in the air ANYWHERE and start hacking. also, the public loves watching it ive noticed. i can go on and on but i wont. i cant wait to beat my cancer and start baggin' again! i have new black lavers and a matt cross bag and a bomb bag in the mail as well! can not wait to start again. itll be like starting all over again, since i havent played in years and only learned the basic 2 adds.