Self Serving

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 10 Jan 2003 17:49

Webster's dictionary defines self-serving as follows:

"self-serving: serving one's own interests often in disregard of the truth or the interests of others."

Now the truth is that there are very very few rules in the game of footbag but there is ONE that dates back to the dawn of the game and it is one that I personally believe strongly is worth preserving, and that is - A rally begins with a courtesy toss to another player in the circle.

How can you not feel guilty picking up the bag and serving it to yourself? It is such an outrageous thing for me to see happening in this game after having grown up with such a completely different culture. When I played in hack circles in my high school in the early 80's you'd get beaned with the bag if you self-served.

I must say that I don't witness much self-serving personally. I guess out of respect for me people are willing to curtail their self-serving habit. I appreciate this but I would say that the game itself deserves that same respect, even when it's just you and your buddies practicing in your basement.

Kenny Shults

the_lost · Post by **the_lost** » 10 Jan 2003 21:35

i dont like self serving, and i think if you drop in on your first try, then pass it to the next person. if they pass it back to you then ok. Deric Fogel tought me that.

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 10 Jan 2003 22:30

I prefer not to play this way, but this is how I learned...
(As Kenny mentioned, above), you self-serve, you cop a branding from the others in the circle. This also applied to "sorry's" and hand contacts.
It's a baptisim of fire as far as learning the etiquite is concerned.

However, when in a one on one situation, I don't see a problem with self serving. An example is when the other person is breathless after a good run, and you stuff it VERY early on into your run. A courtisy return serve would only come naturally from your friend, so in this case, self serves are OK. But that's about the only time you'll catch me doing that.

Also when your hacking with a good mate, you usually know what they're capable of. If they stuff it early and you'd only return their serve anyway, just tell 'em to keep it and self serve.

dan · Post by **dan** » 11 Jan 2003 06:01

"Important Note from Kenny Shults on freestyle circle etiquette - Please do NOT serve the footbag to yourself. If you botch your combo when the bag is passed to you, it is NOT your option to try again. Pass the bag to the next player. It is that player's option to give it back to you. It should not be the default that everybody always gets two tries. It should in fact be the rare exception. Also, if you noticed yourself or have been notified by another player that a trick in your combo was "The" (not cleanly executed), then promptly pass the bag to the next player. Thank you for your cooperation - Enforcer. "
these are the words, arent they?

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 11 Jan 2003 08:47

I'm beginning to realise that self serving is lame... but about "the". I think if you the a move you should not have to stop your run. Just as I don't believe in guiltlessness. I believe in super guiltless (which lon made up and he defined as doing whatever you want) and I also believe in genuine which I have heard chad and Ellis refer to. It means you dont bail. So no paradox mirages when you can hit blurs like all the time. You can be gunuine tiltless too. Kenny... why should someone pass the bag if they the? I just try and hit the trick again clean. Assuming I don't drop. Also what do you think about some people not caring about guiltless?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 11 Jan 2003 09:08

its good for the sport to be super guiltless. People watching like to see a longer run of clipper> mirage than 1 butterfly>pdx mirage. Plus if they see stuff like bubba and dragon they will be like "whoa"

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 11 Jan 2003 11:16

yea and super guiltless doesnt mean that you always throw tilts or guilts or whatever.. it just means you do what you want.. if you want to do 3 hit phat combos and drop that still means you are super guiltless. as long as you are doing it for yourself and not cause other people say thats the way it should be. i used to think oh ill self serve if i want, f to the izuck other people, but i was just doing it to rebel against athority, when i really think about it, i would rather live in a circle where there is no self serving.. live in a WORLD with no war

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 11 Jan 2003 12:04

i dont get why you should pass on a the either.
youre only making yourself look bad. isnt it your own problem?

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 11 Jan 2003 12:22

society tells me that if i do a 1 add i should pass it.

the female players are always super guiltless (toe>toe>toe). heh. even if they could go guiltless you seem to see that all the time.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 11 Jan 2003 14:25

I think it's good to pass on a "the" for a number of reasons -

1. It gives you one more reason to actually pass besides a drop, which I think is good for energy and flow in a circle.

2. I treat it like a penalty for myself. If the trick was "the" then the penalty is that I have to pass it. Since I would rather continue my run, this works to help me learn not to do "the's". If there is no penalty then there is no reason not to do it.

As for Guiltless, I'd say that it definitely has a place in helping players to push themselves and not bail to easy stuff just to avoid dropping. There are a lot of stylie 2's out there and I am in favor of seeing those integrated in a run. My "fill" tricks are mostly butterflies and osis. I try to keep these to a minimum since they really aren't adding anything to the string other than helping me set up the next real trick. I start feeling really guilty whenever I've done 3 "fills" in a row. It's time to pass at that point.

Kenny Shults

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 11 Jan 2003 15:31

i think a lot of lons gutless runs are super styley and amazing to watch. especially drunken style. "bails" dont have to be boring

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 11 Jan 2003 16:03

if you do move the or you do a one add move, it breaks your flow anyway.

Im not saying i would pass it, but its just an idea

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 11 Jan 2003 16:51

I don't know what gutless is but if it looks stylish and amazing it's o.k. with me. (provided of course that it doesn't involve any self-serving)

Kenny Shults

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 11 Jan 2003 17:03

i always pass if i bail to a 2. if not right away at least a few moves. i guess coz we never knew what the's were until like the sickening came out.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 11 Jan 2003 20:23

Why did you know when the Sickening came out?

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 11 Jan 2003 21:49

coz theres a big speech bubble coming out of chads head that says "the" while enlightener is busting. and i think joel told me when we were wondering. coz hed been to worlds a couple years and i guess knew the lingo better than us.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 11 Jan 2003 21:54

About passing on a the... Why would anyone want to continue a run after a the'd trick? Especially if it was CALLED the on you... I think you should always pass on a the, ESPECIALLY if someone calls it. Personally, I would feel like im disrespecting my "the caller", and disregarding thier judgement, if i didn't pass the bag.

madshred2003 · Post by **madshred2003** » 11 Jan 2003 22:00

sorry, so is the word "the" like big pops? i've never heard this term before. footbag chnges so rapidly

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 11 Jan 2003 22:06

its if you dont do amove correctly, such as not doing a complete dex.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 11 Jan 2003 22:26

a the is a sloppy dex. think whirl and the bag is off to the side and you throw your leg to dex it but dex the air instead. whirls, double dexes (paradons, barrages), and illusions (flail, eggbeater) are easiest to the.

i would pass if i was called on a the.

Self Serving

Self serving is