Origin of footbag nomenclature

General footbag-related topics that don't fit elsewhere go in here.
mattkain
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Post by mattkain » 09 Jan 2007 22:00

Kenny and Rippin' talking about the invention of the aptly named big apple on the discussion list back in February of 2001:
Kenny Shults wrote:One is the Big Apple which is simply symposium mobius and was discovered in
Central Park NYC in 1992 hence the name.
Rippin' Rick Reese wrote:Kenny hit Big Apple first, of course in NYC. It was an incredible
time,Dennis Jones, Lisa Mac-Jones, Sam and myself had an epic jam right
smack dab in the kiddle of Times Square, awesome crowds and response, and it
was at night,plenty of lights around of course. The best part about the
event is that we had our own personal camera man there to follow us around
the entire time, I have 7 videos tucked away with all the
footage......incredible.
More from Kenny in a January '01 post:
Kenny Shults wrote:The Big Apple was created and hit after about 6 tries by me in 1992 at the
American Athletic Games in Central Park, NYC, hence the name. I believe that others in the circle at the time who might recall the event were Rick Reese, Scott Davidson and Dennis Ross.
Last edited by mattkain on 10 Jan 2007 12:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by mattkain » 09 Jan 2007 22:05

Dennis Jones discussing the invention of legbeater in an email to Eric Wulff:
Dennis Jones wrote:Dimitri and I were done skool'n one day and, though
our bodies were spent on freestyle, our minds were not. So we decided to
watch some freestyle video. We were just learning blur so we kept slow-mo'n
the move. I had just gotten a new VCR that allowed me to slow-mo backwards.
The minute I slow-mo'd blur backwards I knew it was a new move right away.
In fact Dimitri hit it that same night. We did not have a name for it but

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Post by mattkain » 09 Jan 2007 22:25

Rippin' on the invention of symposium moves from February of 2000 on the old discussion list:
Rippin' Rick Reese wrote:Secondly, the original concept of symposium moves was thought up by
my great friend Joey Shaeffer, the name was thought of by yours
truly, scanning a dictionary at about 3 in the morning sometime back
in '91 or'92. We weren't sure what we were getting ourselves into but
I'm positive the definition is still, to this day, not black and
white. What I mean is , just like the add system, there is going to
be some discrepancy about certain tricks or moves falling into the
symposium category. The first symp. move created was symp. whirl,
followed by symp. mirage, then symp. whirling swirl, and so on. The
symposium represented the non-plant of the setting foot originally,
but perhaps has moved on to incorporate the idea of just planting one
foot and then performing the trick.

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Post by mattkain » 09 Jan 2007 22:26

Rippin' talking about the invention of gyro moves from February of 2001:
My partner is correct, gyro-whirl was the first gyro move, I hit it back in
93 or 94 at Dennis Jones' house ( the combo involved a bunch of other
whirling moves that I was trying to hit in a row) whirl, symp. whirl,
spinning whirl, gyro-whirl, paradox whirl........anyway, gyro-butterfly came
later. Now, everybody. Gyro cannot have a plant, of course Kenny is right.
If you plant, you are then performing a STOMPING move......I had'nt seen
anybody mention that concept at all on the list lately. Back in 95 at the
awesome Funtastic Classic Pete, Kenny and myself were at the tail-end of the
first nights jam and we all started messing around with stomping in between
all kinds of moves, THINK of the possibilities, well, that concept kind of
fell to the wayside, but it may return!

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Post by max » 09 Jan 2007 23:50

Mobius is 19 years old???

And how can gyro whirl be the first gyro move if it was hit in '93-'94 and mobius dates back to 1988?
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Post by sniikeri » 10 Jan 2007 03:49

I have no idea^, but I find it very interesting reading these old posts.
Nice knowing that symposium was invented when I was in diapers. :)

Where could I find late '80s - early '90s freestyle footage online?
Lauri Jaakkola

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Post by james_dean » 10 Jan 2007 04:28

Thanks for the history Matt! Very interesting stuff. That's so awesome that modern freestyle's roots can be pinpointed so acutely. Thx Kenny.
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Post by footymatt » 10 Jan 2007 04:42

well... I guess head stalls were tiny compared to tricks that were getting invented. Mobi was out that long ago? wow! I gotta get better!
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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 10:37

max wrote:Mobius is 19 years old???

And how can gyro whirl be the first gyro move if it was hit in '93-'94 and mobius dates back to 1988?
Definitely confusing. I've always assumed that what Rippin' meant is that '93-'94 is when the concept of gyro was actually clearly defined and given a name. Even though moves that we now consider to be part of the gyro family (such as mobius) had been hit earlier, no one had really named the concept or even really thought of it as a unique concept. I'm assuming that he means that gyro whirl was the first move that actually had the gyro moniker tacked on. The same is probably true of other concepts. I'm sure lots of people had hit paradox moves before Kenny actually named and clarified the concept.

Anyway, I have some more of these that I'll post later. Somewhere I have a nice email about the invention of torque. As I recall it was actually hit from toe first, not clipper.

Also, as per the initial post, here are some other moves that are named after people:
Ripwalk is named after ‘Rippin Rick Reese
Ripstein is named after ‘Rippin Rick Reese
Torch R Rack is named after Ahren the Torch Gehrman
Irish Cream is named after Peter Irish
Voodoo is named after Tuan Vu
Merlin is named after Noah Merlin Dubreil
Timber Wulff is named after Eric Wulff
Ripped Warrior I assume is named after Rippin’, but I don’t think he hit it (maybe Eric Wulff? Anyone know the story?)

Oh yeah. Boulder Beater is named after Boulder, CO where it was first hit at CSS by Sunil.

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Last edited by mattkain on 10 Jan 2007 10:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 10:44

Here is our very own Jonathan Schneider talking about the invention of shooting star which many believe to be the first quad dex move ever hit. Notice he calls the move "shoot star" - I believe this is a typo. Maybe Jon can clear this up. This is from May of 2000 on the old discussion list:
Jonathan Schneider wrote:some big news from Boulder, CO. I don't know how to put it,
it all happened so fast... and so many times! in our basement
tonight Red Shred Husted hit Shooting Down-Double-Down. many time.
he sealed it about a dozen or so. for the mathematically challenged,
(like me) that adds up to four dexterities. and yeah, it is on
video. a few of 'em. to mark to occasion of the eta aquarid meteor
shower tonight, we've dubbed it Shoot Star. the really amazing thing
is that Red has hardly been playing any footbag this winter. i guess
some time off doesn't hurt some people. that little basement of ours
though, has been home to some other kinds of magic lately too. just
the other night, Dynamite Dave Holton hit a few Blurry Zulu Le Loups.
in other words, a stepping otherside diving (paradox diving)
butterfly. The Boulder Blades footbag is cutting edge! and Red
Diggler is our bright and shining star. catch y'all..
shpater, dudes

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Post by slapdash21 » 10 Jan 2007 10:58

wow.

if you would, keep em coming.
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keeps it offah da ground.

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 11:30

Forgot this on my list. Big Walk (surging butterfly) is of course named after Big Add Chad. Chad named surging set in 2000. I believe the set is named after the soda (see Bust Out Now for more). There is some debate, however, as to whether or not Chad actually invented the set or simply popularized it. From Ryan Mulroney:
Ryan Mulroney wrote:Red Fred Ethan Mason Husted and J boy were doing this set two years ago and
I'm sure others did it before then. Chad may have named the set but he did
not invent it. He has however taken the set to new limits.
I later heard (at CSS3 maybe?) Chad telling Red that even though he (Red) and JBoy had hit the set earlier, they had never hit a clean version of it. Chad claimed they had only hit slurry, wrap style versions of the set and that he (Chad) was the first person to hit the set cleanly. I tend to believe Chad since IMHO I have never seen anyone other than Chad do a clean surging set.

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 12:24

Kenny Shults gives the details about the creation of big apple sauce in a January '01 post to the old discussion list:
Kenny Shults wrote:The Sauce

The Big Apple was created and hit after about 6 tries by me in 1992 at the
American Athletic Games in Central Park, NYC, hence the name. I believe that
others in the circle at the time who might recall the event were Rick Reese,
Scott Davidson and Dennis Ross.

The Big Apple Sauce was conceived over breakfast at the 1994 Michigan
Christmas Jam. Greg Nelson asked about some type of trick that gave me the
idea for the Sauce. At the session that day I actually came fairly close to
hitting it a few times. I continued to try to hit this trick every now and
then over the next six years. I would usually only try it at tournaments or
organized shred sessions because I wanted to be sure to get on film if I
ever hit it. While I came close on a lot of attempts and even made contact a few
times, I never truly hit one.

This last summer at Worlds in Vancouver BC was the most recent public
attempts at the Sauce. I wanted Ryan to give it a try to see if he could hit
it. I figured that if it was hittable, he could do it. He needed a demo to
work from so I joined the circle for and tried about 15 minutes worth of
attempts to no avail. Ryan made a couple of unsuccessful attempts at it.

Since Worlds I discovered that backside symposium blur was a pretty easy
trick for me. I then found that I could hit spinning backside symposium
blur. While not easy it appears to be "dialable" given how easy it has been when I
actually hit it. I had been trying this trick at the Philly Chilly fairly
frequently. After a near miss, I mentioned to Eric Wulff that by merely
replacing the toe catch with an osis I would have the Sauce. On the next
pass I tried what was planned to be another spinning backside symposium blur
attempt. The set was too deep to get a toe on it so I instinctively bailed
to an osis which came up perfectly about chest high in front of me. In
hindsight I wish I had the wherewithal to go straight into something but just as the
bag was coming up the realization hit me. I had just hit the Sauce. All I
managed out of it was three or four inside kicks and a hand catch followed
by a few minutes of stunned confirm! ation with witnesses that it had actually
happened. Eric and Sunil both confirmed it was real. Unfortunately, none of
the cameras onsite were running at the time.

The Sauce is a spinning backside symposium blurry torque. I don't do Jobs
notation but here's how it breaks down.

Left clipper set spin away from set planting left foot (hence this is not a gyro trick)
after spin jump off left foot while doing inside out dex with right leg
followed by symposium inside out with left leg.
bring right foot back under for osis to finish.

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 12:32

Rippin' talking about the origin of torque in a February '01 post to the old footbag.org discussion list:
Rippin' Rick Reese wrote:Kenny and I simultaneously invented Torque at the Intermountain Tournament
in 1987 , ironically, it started from a mirage bail to an osis, not from a
clipper. Seconds later, we both said What about from a clipper, and Torque
was born (Kenny thought of the name........I love you man.

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 12:35

From the same email as above, here's Rippin' talking about the origin of the unappreciated and seldom seen gyro butterfly swirl. You don't hear it much anymore, but this move was originally called spyro gyro:
Rippin' Rick Reese wrote:Spryo-Gyro was hit for the first time at the Heart of Freestyle tournament
in 1995, Peter hit it first, then Myself, then Kenny, That was the same
tourney that Tuan Vu, Eric Wulff, Josh Casey, and Steve Kremer were inducted
into the B.A.P. Thank You Kic.

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 13:36

Although he probably didn't invent any of these, Eli Piltz definitely gets credit for naming, mastering, and really exploring the possibilities of the following sets: nuclear, blazing, scattered, and shattered.

Here's a post from way back in October of '98 where Eli agrees to give the nuclear set its name:
Eli Piltz wrote:Okay, at first I was against naming the 'pdox rev. miraging' set. But
sure, why not.
Since a regular 'rev mirage set' is called 'ATOMIC', why not make the
pdox version similar: 'NUCLEAR'.

Hence,
pdox legbeater= 'nuclear beater' or 'nuclear butterfly'
pdox atomsmasher= 'nuclear smasher' or 'nuclear mirage'
pdox atomic whirl= 'nuclear war'
pdox atomic torque= 'nuclear torque'
pdox atomic drifter= 'nuclear drifter'

at first I didn't like 'nuclear' but it kind of grew on me.

Well how about naming the 'pdox tapping set'?
Any ideas?...besides 'smashing pumpkin',(Brad). :)
i've done pdox tapping mirage, drifter, and whirl.
anyone else done these?

Eli

Here's one from May 2000 where Eli talks about the *alleged* invention of the scattered and shattered sets:
Ellis Piltz wrote:Well, folks,
I have managed to teleport another new concept
from the void of Intergalactic space. It's
probably my favorite and most difficult yet,
surpassing the Nuclear and Blazing sets. A few
months ago I was watching some video in reverse
and thought pdox and blurry whirls looked extra
rad. I forgot about it until Monday night.
To backtrack a little, I received my Laver
Milleniums in the mail Monday, modified and
skooled in them. Geez, my game has changed-
faster, unrestricted blades (feet), and most
importantly no day-after soreness!!! I'll be
skoolin all the time.
So back to the trick: I kicked solo 2 hours
in the day, then at 11 pm I went out for a second
time just to work some easy stuff. Then I
thought about the reverse whirling thing and
decided to go for it. I hit 'double reverse
whirl'- it needs no special name, I think it
sounds cool- very technical without being too
long. So after hitting that, I worked on a set
from the reverse whirl: it's very hard to whip
around with enough time to do anything x-body, so
all I was able to hit was 'reverse whirling
whirl', with a plant inbetween the dexes. But
I'll give it some time to get that set higher.
So the name for this set? I think I'll go
with 'Scattered' for reverse whirling same-side
moves, and 'Shattered' for reverse whirling
opp-side/pdox moves.

Alrighty, just thought I'd let you know.
Eli Piltz
Not to be controversial, but Ellis did not invent scattered and shattered sets (nor did he invent nuclear, he just named it). I personally had hit scattered osis in '99. At the time, I was calling it a dyno set, but I was never able to get much out of it. Anyway, I'm sure many others had experimented with and hit this set long before me or Eli did. Still, Eli gets credit for bringing these sets into the mainstream.

MK

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 13:54

One of my favorite bits is how nuclear double down received the rather terrible name geesha. James Risden hit this in December of 2000 (although I have also heard that Paul Mestas might have hit it first) and posted to the list about it:
James Risden wrote:Hello,
About a week ago, I hit Nuclear Double Down and Big
Apple. I wasn't going to post about them but a few
folks have told me they don't think anyone else has
hit Nuclear Double Down yet(Eli or Ahren?). Does this
mean I can name it?
Later,
James
2 days later:
James Risden wrote:Yes. This may sound dumb to everyone else, but I
suggest that Nuclear Double Over-down (clip> same out>
op out> same out> op clip) be givin the name "Geesha".

Just my 2 cents,
James Risden
Later on, it became well known that James meant to call the trick "geisha" but didn't know how to spell it (or use a dictionary or spell check). Instead we were stuck with "geesha", a nonsense name that just plain sounds stupid no matter how you say it. A name which I vote to keep for historical and comedic reasons.

Anyway, all kidding aside, Risden was an absolutely amazing shredder. Anyone, who had the privilege of playing with him in his prime can testify to this. I'm fairly certain that he was the first person to hit 10 consecutive fearless (non-unique). It was at the 2001 New Year's Jam in Chicago. I videotaped Risden hitting 12 consecutive blurry whirls on Dan Klokow's camera (must have taken him a dozen tries). Dan might even still have the footage. Hard to believe that was half a decade ago.

MK

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Post by mattkain » 10 Jan 2007 15:20

sniikeri wrote: Where could I find late '80s - early '90s freestyle footage online?
You won't find much. Here's some of the earliest footage online:

Peter Irish at '95 Western Regionals:
http://web.archive.org/web/200410261138 ... irish1.mov

1996 footage:
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/showset/w96-v

1997 Worlds footage:
http://www.footbag.org/gallery/video/worlds97-vid

I actually had a bunch of old mid-'90s VHS tapes that I recently gave to Emily (Moxie) including Tuan Vu's Shred '96/'97 and all the old Sean Wingert tapes (Skool Daze, Shredded Wheat, etc.). These tapes have tons of old footage of Tuan Vu, Scott Davidson, Greg Nelson, Paul Munger, Tu Vu, Peter Irish, Kenny Shults, Rick Reese, Josh Casey, Steve Kremer, Tim Kelly, and many more. Some of the highlights include Kenny Shults attempting Big Apple sauce, Paul Munger setting the (former) paradox whirl record (something like 17), Ahren hitting paradox barroque back in like '97, Tuan Vu working out the early stages of the rubberman drill, the '97 BAP inductions which included guys like Mulroney and Chad, and the historic Western Automotive Jam where Noah broke the consecutive eclipse record (which has also since been beat). Good stuff. If you're ever at a Santa Cruz tourney ask Emily to show you some of it.

MK

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Post by Outsider » 10 Jan 2007 19:14

You won't find much. Here's some of the earliest footage online
When footbag dot org first started putting videos on-line, the first one I can remember was a cool little run by Rippin' from about 1993 or 94. It was still there not long ago, buried somewhere, and I tried to find it again today but had no luck. Well, not exactly "no luck", because I stumbled upon Steve Goldberg's personal stash of video, and there is a nice variety of very cool footage from the late 80's and early 90's, footage of guys I'd mostly only heard of, hardly ever actually saw. Plus, he's got the LEGENDARY Ocean County Clippers team freestyle routine (I've been hearing rumors about these guys for years, and up till today had only seen a few tiny bits and pieces of this performance; I will say no more...). And to top it all off, a doubles freestyle routine of his. It reminded me that Steve was actually a pretty damn good freestyler, long long ago. Tough to believe now, I know, but I swear its true, and I always enjoyed shredding with him on the rare occasions when he actually would really freestyle. Alas, Steve's legs ain't what they used to be. Anyway, he had some real good eclipses and a patented move he called "Sifter", a drifter from a sole stall, and much other good stuff (his mastery of the sole stall in general was very impressive, and you'll see what I'm talking about if you watch his routine - bear in mind that its just one small example of his skills, in a doubles routine, which ain't he most idea circumstances, plus, I believe that was an tournament that he was actually running, so...). Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.footbag.org/gallery/showset/844

by the way, thanks, Matt, for the digging you've done, and thanks for the link to Worlds '97. That was my first Worlds, and I'm sure I've already watched ALL those videos, but its probably been 6 or 7 years since that last happened. I think I'll check 'em out again soon. Also, I like your explanation of that whole "first gyro move" thing. That sounds very plausible, and was exactly what I was thinking, but you expressed it very clearly. And as for that archival message of mine, about Red's Quadruple Dex move, yeah, it was a typo - I meant to say Shooting Star.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."

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Post by max » 11 Jan 2007 00:11

wow, great find Jon! Cool videos there.
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