I've put this in general footbag, rather than getting started because the question is aimed at experienced footbaggers, not new players.
I've been thinking a lot lately about what you tell players when they first get exposed to footbag, and what the best advise to give them, so that they stick at it, and become freestylers.
Obviously a really important component is the persons own motivation, but I think what you say also probably has an influence.
I'm really talking specifically about situations where they probably haven't seen the sport before, but either circle kick, or have just bought a bag to learn to play.
I've decided that I think the best advice is to just tell them things that will encourage them to keep playing, and to have fun. I think if you give them specific things to practice, and tips about both sidedness etc. that's probably unhelpful. Let them start playing and get sucked in to enjoying the sport, and then hit them with gory details.
Whether or not they keep going will really depend on how much they enjoy the sport, and practising alternating toe kicks is not fun. Tell them just to see how many kicks they can keep the bag off the ground for, and maybe show them a few easy tricks they can do without much practice (ie. neck/head stalls). The key should be a focus on enjoyment, not improvement.
I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on this.
What to say to people to get them in to footbag
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Outsider
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When I think of "getting people into footbag", I generally think of people who are already kicking a hack around a little bit, but I suppose sometimes people who have never played at all approach me too.
When it is fairly inexperienced circle-kickers, I usually find that they're playing almost exclusively with just one foot, and I try to help them just by encouraging them to use both feet, and to alternate kicks. They usually comment that they're no good with their left foot, and I usually reply by asking them what I intend to be a rhetorical question: "Which foot are you better at walking with? Which foot are you better at climbing the stairs with?" The point I'm trying to make, of course, is that anyone should have adequate coordination to be able to kick decently with both feet, and that kicking with both feet is actually easier and more efficient, just as walking is easier and more efficient than hopping... It is amusing but discouraging to me how many people actually respond to my rhetorical question by hesitantly stating that they're better at walking / stair-climbing with their right foot...
I don't necessarily try to convert hacky-kickers into freestylers, I just assume that if they become a little better at circle-kicking than they'll have even more fun, and perhaps look to keep getting better and decide to learn freestyle too.
When people ask me about freestyle in general and they seem to be fishing for a discription of what makes playing footbag so great, I like to tell them about tournaments and jams and the travel opportunities that they have provided me with. I usually remark that while it can be fun to compete, our tournaments are largely just an excuse to get together and play with a larger bunch of kickers than usual, and to party with them when we've had our fill of kicking. I also like to brag about the friends I've got all over the place and how I've had such great times visiting them. My favorite story for this purpose is thanks to Max Boucoiran. I'd only met Max once at Worlds in Prague in 2003. In 2004, I decided I needed to take a cool trip, so I decided to go the the French Open in Paris. I asked Max if I could stay at his place. Having only met him once before, he not only invited me to stay at his place, he basically just gave me his apartment for the week. "I'll stay with my girlfriend. Here are my keys. Help yourself to any of the booze in the fridge." Merci Beaucoup! How cool. How many games can one get involved in where somebody you barely know gives you the keys to their apartment in Paris? How much more reason do you need to play footbag? (well, one more reason -- there was another American who showed up to that event without a place to stay. Since I had my own apartment, I offered to let Rob Creel stay at MY place [Max's place...], and Rob and I where buddies ever since. Rob is really from New Orleans, and a few years after Paris he invited me down to New Orleans Jazz Fest and Mardi Gras, and showed me a real good time in New Orleans, and that opportunity came about in large part because of Max Boucoiran's generosity).
So, thats about it -- thats some of the things I tell people to get them more into footbag. I can't say that its ever done much good, though.
I usually feel that the #1 best thing to tell people to get them into footbag is: "I play here at this same place at this same time every week -- come out and play with me again soon." What I mean is, it is hard to get into footbag on one's own -- the most helpful thing, I think, is to have a really predictable dependable opportunity to play with others (more experienced others, for the new recruits) on a very regular basis. Alas, I don't really provide that opportunity to anybody these days. Work owns Jon.
When it is fairly inexperienced circle-kickers, I usually find that they're playing almost exclusively with just one foot, and I try to help them just by encouraging them to use both feet, and to alternate kicks. They usually comment that they're no good with their left foot, and I usually reply by asking them what I intend to be a rhetorical question: "Which foot are you better at walking with? Which foot are you better at climbing the stairs with?" The point I'm trying to make, of course, is that anyone should have adequate coordination to be able to kick decently with both feet, and that kicking with both feet is actually easier and more efficient, just as walking is easier and more efficient than hopping... It is amusing but discouraging to me how many people actually respond to my rhetorical question by hesitantly stating that they're better at walking / stair-climbing with their right foot...
I don't necessarily try to convert hacky-kickers into freestylers, I just assume that if they become a little better at circle-kicking than they'll have even more fun, and perhaps look to keep getting better and decide to learn freestyle too.
When people ask me about freestyle in general and they seem to be fishing for a discription of what makes playing footbag so great, I like to tell them about tournaments and jams and the travel opportunities that they have provided me with. I usually remark that while it can be fun to compete, our tournaments are largely just an excuse to get together and play with a larger bunch of kickers than usual, and to party with them when we've had our fill of kicking. I also like to brag about the friends I've got all over the place and how I've had such great times visiting them. My favorite story for this purpose is thanks to Max Boucoiran. I'd only met Max once at Worlds in Prague in 2003. In 2004, I decided I needed to take a cool trip, so I decided to go the the French Open in Paris. I asked Max if I could stay at his place. Having only met him once before, he not only invited me to stay at his place, he basically just gave me his apartment for the week. "I'll stay with my girlfriend. Here are my keys. Help yourself to any of the booze in the fridge." Merci Beaucoup! How cool. How many games can one get involved in where somebody you barely know gives you the keys to their apartment in Paris? How much more reason do you need to play footbag? (well, one more reason -- there was another American who showed up to that event without a place to stay. Since I had my own apartment, I offered to let Rob Creel stay at MY place [Max's place...], and Rob and I where buddies ever since. Rob is really from New Orleans, and a few years after Paris he invited me down to New Orleans Jazz Fest and Mardi Gras, and showed me a real good time in New Orleans, and that opportunity came about in large part because of Max Boucoiran's generosity).
So, thats about it -- thats some of the things I tell people to get them more into footbag. I can't say that its ever done much good, though.
I usually feel that the #1 best thing to tell people to get them into footbag is: "I play here at this same place at this same time every week -- come out and play with me again soon." What I mean is, it is hard to get into footbag on one's own -- the most helpful thing, I think, is to have a really predictable dependable opportunity to play with others (more experienced others, for the new recruits) on a very regular basis. Alas, I don't really provide that opportunity to anybody these days. Work owns Jon.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
There's nothing you can say or do that will make someone stick at it. Either they want to or they don't. You'll know when someone has caught the footbag fever :p
Jon, you've outlined the most incredible aspect of footbag besides actually playing it. If you play footbag, you have friends all over the world, without even having met them. I would happily host a player from anywhere, anytime, and that sentiment is shared amongst us all.
I am seriously looking forward to the next jam I will attend.
Jon, you've outlined the most incredible aspect of footbag besides actually playing it. If you play footbag, you have friends all over the world, without even having met them. I would happily host a player from anywhere, anytime, and that sentiment is shared amongst us all.
I am seriously looking forward to the next jam I will attend.
James McCullough
If people are showing a genuine interest, and/or if they ask me where to get a good footbag, I'll physically write down the following on a piece of paper and give it to them:
footbag.org- information on the sport, including club and tournament listings
modified.in- forum to learn from others on the sport
freedomfootbags.com- place for good cheap footbags. I recommend the 4 panel sandman.
My contact info if they're local
footbag.org- information on the sport, including club and tournament listings
modified.in- forum to learn from others on the sport
freedomfootbags.com- place for good cheap footbags. I recommend the 4 panel sandman.
My contact info if they're local
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'd say there are a few things that I've done that seem to work...
First off, no sucking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAt0I1r1iJ4
I'm sure a lot of us appreciate this video, and I find it hilarious as well, but when a new players see's that someone who is doing this well "sucks," the newcomer must be hopeless... So I would say refraining from that is always good. It may have pushed David to get as good as he got, but yeah. Honestly I would say do the opposite. When you hit something you don't hit often.. just... enjoy it. Be like, fuck yeah and get excited idk. That sort of gives a positive connotation with our sport.
Always carry a sandbag. Let the bastard do chicken scratches. Taking it super serious seems to dull things for the average circle kicker. They'll often tell you to try and hit some obnoxious move that you have no interest in trying (like a certain spin with a delayed body movement then catching on heel in the end or some crap), which you may or may not do... but goofing off seems to work.
Give props on damn near everything that actually deserves props. Congrats, you finally kicked the bag with both feet in a single string. Well, genuinely tell me that that is improvement and awesome job. Also express that you'd enjoy seeing more improvement, and encourage them to set goals without saying: "hey, set goals;" or "hey, get better."
I'd also say that if you like the person, it's easier to get them started in the sport. It's not directly about footbag probably, but if the dude becomes a good friend, well, that seems to work, right? Whether or not the dude become a legend or finally get to guiltless and quits, is the part that is more up to them.
Just rambling here.. Some of these things may be entirely way to obvious. But, you asked - might as well bluntly state what I think works. Also, I should add this isn't the way to get someone to try freestyle, rather, a way to get someone to try freestyle. It's just some things that have seemed to work from my perspective.
And that is an amazing story John...
First off, no sucking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAt0I1r1iJ4
I'm sure a lot of us appreciate this video, and I find it hilarious as well, but when a new players see's that someone who is doing this well "sucks," the newcomer must be hopeless... So I would say refraining from that is always good. It may have pushed David to get as good as he got, but yeah. Honestly I would say do the opposite. When you hit something you don't hit often.. just... enjoy it. Be like, fuck yeah and get excited idk. That sort of gives a positive connotation with our sport.
Always carry a sandbag. Let the bastard do chicken scratches. Taking it super serious seems to dull things for the average circle kicker. They'll often tell you to try and hit some obnoxious move that you have no interest in trying (like a certain spin with a delayed body movement then catching on heel in the end or some crap), which you may or may not do... but goofing off seems to work.
Give props on damn near everything that actually deserves props. Congrats, you finally kicked the bag with both feet in a single string. Well, genuinely tell me that that is improvement and awesome job. Also express that you'd enjoy seeing more improvement, and encourage them to set goals without saying: "hey, set goals;" or "hey, get better."
I'd also say that if you like the person, it's easier to get them started in the sport. It's not directly about footbag probably, but if the dude becomes a good friend, well, that seems to work, right? Whether or not the dude become a legend or finally get to guiltless and quits, is the part that is more up to them.
Just rambling here.. Some of these things may be entirely way to obvious. But, you asked - might as well bluntly state what I think works. Also, I should add this isn't the way to get someone to try freestyle, rather, a way to get someone to try freestyle. It's just some things that have seemed to work from my perspective.
And that is an amazing story John...
Cory Allen
My Footblog
My Footblog
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F[uns]tylin' Eclectic
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Jon, awesome story. That's the kind of stuff that really makes me love this sport.
Corey, I laughed so hard when I saw what that video was
I agree with a lot of this...
I have gotten a lot of new players into footbag... Now, some of them give up on themselves and that's unfortunate, but when that happens, I just comment on their face book wall, "P#@&y.." then I delete them haha just kidding.
But yeah, more than half of the players that I got into the sport are still playing and some have even gotten pretty damn good or are well on their way!
1) One of the most important things to do is, what Corey said... Give them props for just about everything...
2) If I see that they are going to be good at a certain trick, I tell them so (ie. My one noob at school has Landes legs and I straight up told him, he will hit Doofs one day, because of his weird ass knees and that only a few people in the world can pull of a good Doof... He was excited to hear that).
3) If they have good crank then I tell them that this will help them reach ridiculous levels, if they want to reach them.
4) I have a shitload of footbags that I've collected over the years and I often lend out the older ones to new guys if I see that they might be progressing. I also have a few old pairs of Lavers and Quantums and I lend those to them to practice with until they feel like getting their own.
5) I offer to help and teach them as much as I can, whenever I can. I also think it's important to establish a friendship with them... I mean, this often just happens, but it's so necessary to show them that we're not just footbag partners, we're friends too (ie. Nathan Pipenberg and I got all of our noobs to come to Nathan's house and we ordered pizza and watched "Champion's League" and just hang out and talked. It was a really fun time). I also do what Ken just said.. I always give them my contact info.
6) Also, This is one of the most important things, peeps! ALWAYS KEEP UP TO DATE ON THE NEW MEMBERS TO FOOTBAG.ORG AS WELL AS MODIFIED!!! If there's a new club (on .org) or a new member (on .in), maybe they're from your area, and if they are, contact them, ask them if they would like you to show them the ropes. On the flipside, maybe they are not from your state, but chances are, you know another player who lives in their area who you can pass along that person's contact info to.. (ie. I've found one of our area's most promising players on here this summer and he's progressed a scary amount. Also, I am always looking at the new members on .org and .in, and I have found a who crew of skilled circle kickers 45 mins from here and oddly enough, I established most of the Columbus, Ohio Freestyle Crew. Mike Angeski was the only player in his area, then I him at East Coasts last year and he told me where he was, and I gave him contact info of my friend Nick Pasquarello who lives 30 minutes from him and then down the road I saw some other players were from columbus and I connected Nick and Mike with their contact information and now the Columbus Crew is about 8 or 9 players, I think.
Wow, big post.. sorry about that... Mainly just read number 6 lol I feel like that is the most important and that not enough players do this.
Corey, I laughed so hard when I saw what that video was
I agree with a lot of this...
I have gotten a lot of new players into footbag... Now, some of them give up on themselves and that's unfortunate, but when that happens, I just comment on their face book wall, "P#@&y.." then I delete them haha just kidding.
But yeah, more than half of the players that I got into the sport are still playing and some have even gotten pretty damn good or are well on their way!
1) One of the most important things to do is, what Corey said... Give them props for just about everything...
2) If I see that they are going to be good at a certain trick, I tell them so (ie. My one noob at school has Landes legs and I straight up told him, he will hit Doofs one day, because of his weird ass knees and that only a few people in the world can pull of a good Doof... He was excited to hear that).
3) If they have good crank then I tell them that this will help them reach ridiculous levels, if they want to reach them.
4) I have a shitload of footbags that I've collected over the years and I often lend out the older ones to new guys if I see that they might be progressing. I also have a few old pairs of Lavers and Quantums and I lend those to them to practice with until they feel like getting their own.
5) I offer to help and teach them as much as I can, whenever I can. I also think it's important to establish a friendship with them... I mean, this often just happens, but it's so necessary to show them that we're not just footbag partners, we're friends too (ie. Nathan Pipenberg and I got all of our noobs to come to Nathan's house and we ordered pizza and watched "Champion's League" and just hang out and talked. It was a really fun time). I also do what Ken just said.. I always give them my contact info.
6) Also, This is one of the most important things, peeps! ALWAYS KEEP UP TO DATE ON THE NEW MEMBERS TO FOOTBAG.ORG AS WELL AS MODIFIED!!! If there's a new club (on .org) or a new member (on .in), maybe they're from your area, and if they are, contact them, ask them if they would like you to show them the ropes. On the flipside, maybe they are not from your state, but chances are, you know another player who lives in their area who you can pass along that person's contact info to.. (ie. I've found one of our area's most promising players on here this summer and he's progressed a scary amount. Also, I am always looking at the new members on .org and .in, and I have found a who crew of skilled circle kickers 45 mins from here and oddly enough, I established most of the Columbus, Ohio Freestyle Crew. Mike Angeski was the only player in his area, then I him at East Coasts last year and he told me where he was, and I gave him contact info of my friend Nick Pasquarello who lives 30 minutes from him and then down the road I saw some other players were from columbus and I connected Nick and Mike with their contact information and now the Columbus Crew is about 8 or 9 players, I think.
Wow, big post.. sorry about that... Mainly just read number 6 lol I feel like that is the most important and that not enough players do this.
I'd just like to echo the importance of what has been said by multiple people so far highlighting the importance of establishing a friendly atmosphere and friendly interaction between yourself and the prospective "recruit". This is what I feel is the most important thing (but obviously not the only thing) and something I myself need to be better at.
Carrying a sandmaster as Corey said is a very good idea. I don't have any an have noticed an immediate disconnect with people when I ask them not to chicken scratch it. people have taken that as probably an "elitist" statement and it's burned some birdges for me for sure =/
Also, just want to shout many hallelujahs toward Nick for (#6) consonantly monitoring .org and .in as he has LITERALLY connected me with EVERY kicker I've met in the Columbus area. Again, this is something I myself do not do, but it has been an immense help in establishing a crew in C-bus.
Carrying a sandmaster as Corey said is a very good idea. I don't have any an have noticed an immediate disconnect with people when I ask them not to chicken scratch it. people have taken that as probably an "elitist" statement and it's burned some birdges for me for sure =/
Also, just want to shout many hallelujahs toward Nick for (#6) consonantly monitoring .org and .in as he has LITERALLY connected me with EVERY kicker I've met in the Columbus area. Again, this is something I myself do not do, but it has been an immense help in establishing a crew in C-bus.
Nick Pasquarello
Shred on
Shred on
Thanks for the suggestions, there are some good replies in this.
When I posted this I was really thinking about the "point of sale." The bit where they see footbag for the first time, are somewhat impressed, and you have 30 seconds of conversation to try and get them into it.
I don't accept James' suggestion that there is nothing you can say. That sounds defeatist, and unless we could get definitive proof that is true, surely trying something is better, give the low cost but potential high payoff. I agree it's a very hard sell though.
Regular kicking times is a good one, and something that I try to mention, as much as I can. In the past I've stressed "hard work," especially when I'm asked how long it takes to learn or how I can do it (ie. "It can take a year if you work hard, or many years if you don't"), but I think this is a bit of a poor thing to stress. When they turn up at the regular kicking time to play, that's when you should start talking about both sides, regular training, drills etc. (maybe even give them a couple of sessions
).
I think what I'm going to say will be;
1. Invite them to regular kicking time.
2. It's fun, you make lots of friends etc.
3. You can do it anywhere; I learnt a lot of the basics waiting for a bus etc.
If kids start keeping a freestyle bag on them, and having a kick, or trying a few things while they wait for a bus, for them this is very little effort, but I think will inevitably lead some of them getting more interested.
When I posted this I was really thinking about the "point of sale." The bit where they see footbag for the first time, are somewhat impressed, and you have 30 seconds of conversation to try and get them into it.
I don't accept James' suggestion that there is nothing you can say. That sounds defeatist, and unless we could get definitive proof that is true, surely trying something is better, give the low cost but potential high payoff. I agree it's a very hard sell though.
Regular kicking times is a good one, and something that I try to mention, as much as I can. In the past I've stressed "hard work," especially when I'm asked how long it takes to learn or how I can do it (ie. "It can take a year if you work hard, or many years if you don't"), but I think this is a bit of a poor thing to stress. When they turn up at the regular kicking time to play, that's when you should start talking about both sides, regular training, drills etc. (maybe even give them a couple of sessions
). I think what I'm going to say will be;
1. Invite them to regular kicking time.
2. It's fun, you make lots of friends etc.
3. You can do it anywhere; I learnt a lot of the basics waiting for a bus etc.
If kids start keeping a freestyle bag on them, and having a kick, or trying a few things while they wait for a bus, for them this is very little effort, but I think will inevitably lead some of them getting more interested.