I'm sure people many people have noticed these two pages;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Footbag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_footbag
While ok, both these pages need a lot more work. I think it would be a good project for people on modified to update them to a level where they would be at least of a level worthy of being "featured." Getting footbag "featured" would expose footbag to literally millions of people. I'm going to try to some of that updating, but would like to encourage others to do the same. I suggest you read up on the general wikipedia article guidelines before making changes.
A few comments;
1. Make sure all language is objective. You can't say things like: "These players are innovators of the discipline."
2. Reference everything. Every single factual statement should have a reference.
3. Most of the freestyle footbag article needs rewriting because it's convoluted and confusing to non-footbaggers. Events should be titled by their official name in the IFPA rules.
4. Normal English conventions should apply to nomenclature, and the use of footbag specific grammar should be explained.
5. The section on "footbag games" in the main article is woeful, and probably should be deleted completely.
6. Sneaking in in-text references to places that would help new players would be great - .org, modified, anz trickz etc.
7. I note that a number of players, esp. Czech players, have their own pages, complete with an info box. It would also be good to update these, include references, delete the whole list of awards in Honza's page, create event pages with full result lists, navigation menus etc. - But I think this should be a later project.
Footbag on Wikipedia
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
Hi,
I actually planned to have a work group at worlds this year but I either judged or competed, so I spent my spare time not sitting in front of the computer. Anyhow, I was once motivated to do something, but not anymore.. In particular since I noticed that there are still hacky-sacker out there I just don't want to deal with.. wikipedia being public and all. I admit my note turned out to be just some rant without anything thing done about it, but let me copy the thing I said on facebook anyway.
I actually planned to have a work group at worlds this year but I either judged or competed, so I spent my spare time not sitting in front of the computer. Anyhow, I was once motivated to do something, but not anymore.. In particular since I noticed that there are still hacky-sacker out there I just don't want to deal with.. wikipedia being public and all. I admit my note turned out to be just some rant without anything thing done about it, but let me copy the thing I said on facebook anyway.
Dear all,
I want to suggest a small work group for Worlds in Warsaw this year with the aim to update the article about Footbag on Wikipedia.
I recently stumbled upon this page and I hope that many of you agree that it's inappropiate. Before mentioning some examples that give raise to my claim, let me shortly state what purpose the Wikipedia article holds in my eyes: the article /footbag should be the same as /footbag_(sport) that defines in a wikipedia-typical way what footbag (for us) is, i.e. the competitive sport loosely regulated by the IFPA with focus on Footbag Net and Footbag Freestyle. The relevance in society that is held by circle-kicking should be distinguished and pointed out only in a subsection of the article.
This is not met by the current version http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =496101664 as of June, 11 2012 for the following reasons:
The introduction does not mention Net or Freestyle at all.
One of the two pictures shows a Hacky-Sack. Alright, where's the link to Woodstock?
The picture of the Net section looks like as it was taken on some camping site.
The only video is that of a hack circle - whereas some Vasek Shred (or something more modern for better quality) would give the article so much more information on how the sport works.
One third of the article is a list of some random "footbag games" like Basse and Buce. (wtf?)
The other half is actually about Footbag world records of the type, how many kicks you can do in five minutes. I think the frontier of footbag lies somewhere else then in consecutive kicking.
I really hope that I am not the only one who finds these things misplaced in a footbag article, hence I'd like to call an (informal) get-together during worlds. This goes especially towards the freestylers, who are bored most of the time during worlds (3h of competition in 7 days). I don't think one has to change everything, for example the text that is already written down, which would need a native English speaker, but one can also think of how or what to combine the footbag and footbag freestyle article and what pictures and videos are to add (media is everything now-a-days).
There are many things one can reason to add to the article, I will not mention anything, but I invite you to brainstorm already in the weeks prior to Worlds.
Finally, let me mention why we should care: Even though there already is a "single source of information" aka footbag.org, the average person (my definition of average is here: I want to know about something, first thing is to check wikipedia) interested in footbag will first click on the wikipedia article after the google search for footbag. Therefore, the first contact made by a random person with the sport I so truly love, feels rather emberassing since it depicts the wrong things somehow.
I suppose there should be some kind of disclaimer: Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. In particular, any strong opinions on things can end up into a wiki-war. The idea is not to let this happen by boiling it down to a one man show but get the consensus as far as possible from the active footbag community. The point is, one doesn't have to do a lot, it can easily be done in a couple of hours well spent with other shreddies during Worlds. Obviously, by the first fact given in this paragraph, anyone can edit the article already now to something more appropiate. I won't do anything before Warsaw, though.
Hope to see you in Aachen,
Rene
rene
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
While I think player pages on wikipedia are cool, I have always wondered whether they met the notability requirements for athlete wikipedia pages. Based on my understanding of these requirements, pretty much no footbaggers qualify. Obviously, I think it's best to leave the pages up until somebody notices and objects, since in the meantime its free publicity for footbaggers. But going back to the original purpose of this thread, I think Jeremy is right that we improve the page for freestyle footbag itself before tackling issues with player pages.Jeremy wrote: 7. I note that a number of players, esp. Czech players, have their own pages, complete with an info box. It would also be good to update these, include references, delete the whole list of awards in Honza's page, create event pages with full result lists, navigation menus etc. - But I think this should be a later project.
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
I agree Ken - both with the pages not meeting the criteria, but with wanting to keep them up for the sake of promoting footbag 
Great message Rene. I agree with you, and you highlighted a lot of the specific issues I have with the current page. To be honest, I think the best approach to the footbag article might be a complete re-write. Lots of the information is either unnecessary, unreferenced, or doesn't follow wikipedia conventions. I would set the article out something like this;
Intro
History of sport
Description of current sport
- Freestyle
- Net
- Circle kicking
Governance (IFPA)
World Championships
See Also
References
External Links
All "equipment" stuff would go into the relevant discipline. "Games" and "World Records" would be deleted (consec. records could perhaps get a mention in circle kicking). Current Champions would go into relevant disciplines. Description of each discipline would mainly be of the general discipline, while their individual pages would contain most of the information about specific events. All statements would be referenced. External links would be cleaned up.
Great message Rene. I agree with you, and you highlighted a lot of the specific issues I have with the current page. To be honest, I think the best approach to the footbag article might be a complete re-write. Lots of the information is either unnecessary, unreferenced, or doesn't follow wikipedia conventions. I would set the article out something like this;
Intro
History of sport
Description of current sport
- Freestyle
- Net
- Circle kicking
Governance (IFPA)
World Championships
See Also
References
External Links
All "equipment" stuff would go into the relevant discipline. "Games" and "World Records" would be deleted (consec. records could perhaps get a mention in circle kicking). Current Champions would go into relevant disciplines. Description of each discipline would mainly be of the general discipline, while their individual pages would contain most of the information about specific events. All statements would be referenced. External links would be cleaned up.
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
Bumping this to remind me to get started on this tonight!
Edit; and to encourage others to post thoughts, especially about what content should or shouldn't be in the article.
Edit; and to encourage others to post thoughts, especially about what content should or shouldn't be in the article.
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
I think changing the "World Championships" section into a broader "Competitions" section (with information on Worlds and perhaps a couple other of the larger competitions like Euros and the U.S. Open) would be a good idea. If the goal is to convey information on tournaments it seems appropriate to first explain what an event designed to quantify player skill looks like, and then perhaps going into the examples themselves.
I don't quite feel qualified to write up much of the article itself, but I will certainly be capable of proof reading and general clean up once that time comes.
I don't quite feel qualified to write up much of the article itself, but I will certainly be capable of proof reading and general clean up once that time comes.
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
I think all the actual competition description stuff would go under the specific sports - eg. under the Freestyle subheading of description I'd describe the main freestlye events. Anyway I've got started and am doing the article in my sandbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Owheelj/sandbox). People can feel free to make changes if they like, or post about them here. (I obviously haven't done a great deal yet).
What I most want is references about footbag history in particular. When were the first world champs held, who organised it. What was the "National Hacky Sack Association", when did it start, and did it turn into the IFPA or was that different? Having a good wikipedia article means I need references for these kinds of things, not just people involved saying what happened.
I think it would also be good to have a footbag in popular culture section. If people could list examples I can put them in. I'll start the list - She's All That, You Don't Mess with the Zohan, The conjoined twins movie (anybody remember what it's called?)
What I most want is references about footbag history in particular. When were the first world champs held, who organised it. What was the "National Hacky Sack Association", when did it start, and did it turn into the IFPA or was that different? Having a good wikipedia article means I need references for these kinds of things, not just people involved saying what happened.
I think it would also be good to have a footbag in popular culture section. If people could list examples I can put them in. I'll start the list - She's All That, You Don't Mess with the Zohan, The conjoined twins movie (anybody remember what it's called?)
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Frank_Sinatra
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Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
I'm glad to see people working on this. Years back I spent some time trying to clean out the garbage, make it more readable, get rid of the "me and my friends do this thing where everybody moos like a cow when a fat kid gets it" type of comments.
Like Rene said, it's difficult to stay on top of the "contributions" of circle kickers. The footbag games section, for instance, is a mess. At one point I think I added a statement like "footbag games are numerous and spontaneously generated, here's a list of some..." and then left the rest as a dumping ground. Another problem (IMO this is a problem - others may disagree) is that different groups want to link their game/product to the footbag page (e.g. Buce, Miyachi) and insert their marketing materials into the wiki page. Lastly, finding primary sources to link to so that wikipedia doesn't flag the article for needing citations would be a huge step.
I think Rene's idea of a working group is fantastic. You have to get dedicated people involved, to make edits, but also justifying those edits in the discussion sections. It's too much for one person to both keep it cleaned up, and turn it into something with a lot of depth and valuable information.
Like Rene said, it's difficult to stay on top of the "contributions" of circle kickers. The footbag games section, for instance, is a mess. At one point I think I added a statement like "footbag games are numerous and spontaneously generated, here's a list of some..." and then left the rest as a dumping ground. Another problem (IMO this is a problem - others may disagree) is that different groups want to link their game/product to the footbag page (e.g. Buce, Miyachi) and insert their marketing materials into the wiki page. Lastly, finding primary sources to link to so that wikipedia doesn't flag the article for needing citations would be a huge step.
I think Rene's idea of a working group is fantastic. You have to get dedicated people involved, to make edits, but also justifying those edits in the discussion sections. It's too much for one person to both keep it cleaned up, and turn it into something with a lot of depth and valuable information.
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
Thanks Nathan. I've been a bit slack on this, as you'll notice from my sandbox, but it's still on my list of stuff to do 
Staying on top of "contributions" is actually really easy. I haven't been bothering with the current page, but it's easy to "watch" a page and set up an email notification. Today with smart phones, this would mean being aware of any changes within minutes of them occurring, and if there were a few people doing that, we should have enough cover to be able to prevent vandalism (although taking a day to remove it isn't that bad either).
I'm kind of hoping this topic can act as the working group page, and anybody who wants to be involved can be through here. I like keeping these discussions public and open because I want to have as little barriers to involvement as possible, and on a broader level, I want to find ways to encourage more footbaggers to become involved in projects outside of just playing.
Having written a couple of articles from scratch, I think it's definitely possible for somebody to do that, but more people involved is definitely better and easier. My plan is basically to keep working on the page in my sandbox until it's ready and replace the current page with that one. Time is my biggest barrier though, but I realise this coming week is probably the freest I'll be for most of the rest of the year, so I'll try to get a lot done over the coming days.
References are definitely the biggest deal. I'm also slightly concerned about using the .org wiki as references - not because wikipedia wouldn't accept them, but because I contributed on a number and it wouldn't be a robust article if I wrote a statement and referenced it to a .org statement that I also wrote. If we have to do that (and we may have to), so be it, but I'd like to avoid it if possible.
So the key things people could do to help right now are;
1. Find references relating to footbag describing aspects of it such as culture and history (results and rules will be referenced to the actual .org rules and results pages).
2. Describe more cultural references to footbag than the three movies I have mentioned (stuck on you, She's all that, remember the zohan). I realise now that obviously California Games should get a mention.
3. Think of things that should go in the article not already mentioned on my sandbox.
Edit; Something I've been thinking about a lot recently, but haven't done anything on, which is somewhat related to this, is a .org wiki page listing every world championships result, or at least the winners. I'm just making a note of it here as a reminder/idea of something somebody else could do (or if you create a spreadsheet or something, I'm happy to convert it into the .org wiki page).
Staying on top of "contributions" is actually really easy. I haven't been bothering with the current page, but it's easy to "watch" a page and set up an email notification. Today with smart phones, this would mean being aware of any changes within minutes of them occurring, and if there were a few people doing that, we should have enough cover to be able to prevent vandalism (although taking a day to remove it isn't that bad either).
I'm kind of hoping this topic can act as the working group page, and anybody who wants to be involved can be through here. I like keeping these discussions public and open because I want to have as little barriers to involvement as possible, and on a broader level, I want to find ways to encourage more footbaggers to become involved in projects outside of just playing.
Having written a couple of articles from scratch, I think it's definitely possible for somebody to do that, but more people involved is definitely better and easier. My plan is basically to keep working on the page in my sandbox until it's ready and replace the current page with that one. Time is my biggest barrier though, but I realise this coming week is probably the freest I'll be for most of the rest of the year, so I'll try to get a lot done over the coming days.
References are definitely the biggest deal. I'm also slightly concerned about using the .org wiki as references - not because wikipedia wouldn't accept them, but because I contributed on a number and it wouldn't be a robust article if I wrote a statement and referenced it to a .org statement that I also wrote. If we have to do that (and we may have to), so be it, but I'd like to avoid it if possible.
So the key things people could do to help right now are;
1. Find references relating to footbag describing aspects of it such as culture and history (results and rules will be referenced to the actual .org rules and results pages).
2. Describe more cultural references to footbag than the three movies I have mentioned (stuck on you, She's all that, remember the zohan). I realise now that obviously California Games should get a mention.
3. Think of things that should go in the article not already mentioned on my sandbox.
Edit; Something I've been thinking about a lot recently, but haven't done anything on, which is somewhat related to this, is a .org wiki page listing every world championships result, or at least the winners. I'm just making a note of it here as a reminder/idea of something somebody else could do (or if you create a spreadsheet or something, I'm happy to convert it into the .org wiki page).
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LinoSphere
- BSOS Beast
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- Contact:
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
There's been a few footbag scenes on The Simpsons over the course of years, but not recently AFAIK. More recent examples are scenes on The Big Bang Theory and How I Met Your Mother. That makes for a pretty good pop culture reference IMO. Also, you could mention that Footbag was featured in many countries' Idol/Talent TV show, in some cases quite succesfully so (Colombia!, Austria, Czech Rep.? - youtube has the proof...)Jeremy wrote:2. Describe more cultural references to footbag than the three movies I have mentioned (stuck on you, She's all that, remember the zohan). I realise now that obviously California Games should get a mention
edit: sorry, i misread. hadn't seen that you were asking for people to write those sections. anyways, if someone gets around to writing that portion, they could include these suggestions...
Matthias Lino Schmidt
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
Thanks Matthias. No worries about not writing stuff directly in the article. Anybody who wants to make comments about what should or shouldn't be in the article is more than welcome to comment in this topic, and leave it at that. If need be, I'm happy to do all the actual writing
If anybody can find youtube clips, or specific episode and series references to the mentioned TV shows, that would be great. Also the talent shows is an excellent suggestion. Again we should start noting specific details.
Dan Ednie made the Semi Finals (I think) of Australia's Got Talent. I'll let other people mention others, since they'll know more than me.
I guess we could also mention TV commercials? I know there have been a few biggish ones - Vasek in the phone ad. Was he in a Pepsi ad too? I vaguely recall someone from Europe with playing in an office with paper or something? Ian Pritchard in a Solo ad. Me, Dan and Dyalan in a subway ad. Peter Irish in a breakfast cereal ad?
Also Lon Smith in the Modest Mouse music video, and does anybody remember Ryan Mulroney and Eli Piltz were in some European music video?
I'm at work so can't do much research right now, but I'll try to start adding some links to this topic.
If anybody can find youtube clips, or specific episode and series references to the mentioned TV shows, that would be great. Also the talent shows is an excellent suggestion. Again we should start noting specific details.
Dan Ednie made the Semi Finals (I think) of Australia's Got Talent. I'll let other people mention others, since they'll know more than me.
I guess we could also mention TV commercials? I know there have been a few biggish ones - Vasek in the phone ad. Was he in a Pepsi ad too? I vaguely recall someone from Europe with playing in an office with paper or something? Ian Pritchard in a Solo ad. Me, Dan and Dyalan in a subway ad. Peter Irish in a breakfast cereal ad?
Also Lon Smith in the Modest Mouse music video, and does anybody remember Ryan Mulroney and Eli Piltz were in some European music video?
I'm at work so can't do much research right now, but I'll try to start adding some links to this topic.
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
It was Mads Hole from Denmark in the office commercial. I can't remember the name of the company though.
Lise Thygesen made the semifinals in the danish version of X Got Talent. In Denmark it's only called Talent.
http://www.dr.dk/DR1/Talent/Talenterne/ ... 1/lise.htm
In connection with Euros 2004 in Denmark. Orange made one of the biggest commercial campains based on footbag.
A tour all over Denmark and different commercials running for an entire summer:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FootbagDenm ... ery=orange (Alot of Ryan Mulroney)
Also Mads and Mads did this Intersport commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gL_w_VErCY
Lise Thygesen made the semifinals in the danish version of X Got Talent. In Denmark it's only called Talent.
http://www.dr.dk/DR1/Talent/Talenterne/ ... 1/lise.htm
In connection with Euros 2004 in Denmark. Orange made one of the biggest commercial campains based on footbag.
A tour all over Denmark and different commercials running for an entire summer:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FootbagDenm ... ery=orange (Alot of Ryan Mulroney)
Also Mads and Mads did this Intersport commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gL_w_VErCY
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LinoSphere
- BSOS Beast
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Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
just dug this up yesterday for another forum, where someone was looking for music videos shot in a certain area of berlin (the friedrichshain district where the shots with ryan and ellis were made):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb3n2a ... SvaOPWOt8E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue05JRQdIjE
Colombia Tiene Talento - Brayan Steven, semifinals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqldzoMHjBs
K Swiss, Vasek.
actually, there has been quite a few commercials featuring footbag in various coutries, it might be a little too much to list them all...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb3n2a ... SvaOPWOt8E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue05JRQdIjE
Colombia Tiene Talento - Brayan Steven, semifinals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqldzoMHjBs
K Swiss, Vasek.
actually, there has been quite a few commercials featuring footbag in various coutries, it might be a little too much to list them all...
Matthias Lino Schmidt
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
Yeah I agree about avoiding listing all, although maybe some kind of list at a .org reference page would be cool (for general interest). I think I'll list a couple of the biggest commercials. Orange, Pepsi in Japan, Vasek's phone commercial (because it's cool ).
).Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6coimbTZl6k[/youtube]
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
Thanks Ken.
Ok I've come up with a bit of a list of things already mentioned in this topic that I think should be included. Feel free to put forward cases for changes to this list, and of course other suggestions.
==In Popular Culture==
Movies:
-She's All That
-Stuck on You
-You Don't Mess with the Zohan
Talent Shows:
-Australia's Got Talent: Dan Ednie
-Talent (Denmark): Lise Thygesen
-Colombia - Brayan Steven
Advertising campaigns
-Vasek Vodaphone
-Japan Pepsi
-Orange (Ryan M)
Music Videos
-Ryan and Eli P
-Lon Smith - Modest Mouse
California Games (whole section?)
TV
-Simpsons
-Big Bang Theory
-How I Met Your Mother
Edit; I've also started using a new task manager (www.droptask.com), mainly just as an experiment to see if it's useful. Anyway I've created a group for this project. If people want to be involved more in the actual writing of the article than the brainstorming of ideas here, then send me an email address and I'll invite you onto the task. I also have a group for the .org video record project if people are interested in that (again, more at an admin level, than at the discussion and posting of videos in the modified topic level).
Ok I've come up with a bit of a list of things already mentioned in this topic that I think should be included. Feel free to put forward cases for changes to this list, and of course other suggestions.
==In Popular Culture==
Movies:
-She's All That
-Stuck on You
-You Don't Mess with the Zohan
Talent Shows:
-Australia's Got Talent: Dan Ednie
-Talent (Denmark): Lise Thygesen
-Colombia - Brayan Steven
Advertising campaigns
-Vasek Vodaphone
-Japan Pepsi
-Orange (Ryan M)
Music Videos
-Ryan and Eli P
-Lon Smith - Modest Mouse
California Games (whole section?)
TV
-Simpsons
-Big Bang Theory
-How I Met Your Mother
Edit; I've also started using a new task manager (www.droptask.com), mainly just as an experiment to see if it's useful. Anyway I've created a group for this project. If people want to be involved more in the actual writing of the article than the brainstorming of ideas here, then send me an email address and I'll invite you onto the task. I also have a group for the .org video record project if people are interested in that (again, more at an admin level, than at the discussion and posting of videos in the modified topic level).
Re: Footbag on Wikipedia
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frI1ADsAVMY[/youtube]