Gaza pull out

[BainbridgeShred]

2 out of 3 got it, not that bad
Sergio is from France, so he lives among something like 5 million muslims (correct me if wrong) he went to school with some of then, has muslim neighbours, coworkers, probably friends, etc...
He knows them and doesn't hate them

Average American has a friend's friend who thinks he once met a guy who could be Arab, but isn't sure if he's not from Samoa
But hates Arabs more than anything

Wow, Paulista, I was really confident that your last post was the worst ever, but then you came with this one and blew the last one out of the water. I don't know if I should congratulate you or make an attempt to go back into the past to make sure you were never born.


I hate all of you "enlightened" liberals who, because of your illumination, think you have the right to be prejiduce towards a whole nation. Way to be, Osama. It's people like you and Jeremy who feel a little good inside, albeit guiltily, when you turn on the news and hear stories of American soldiers dying in Iraq.

Oh wait, was that not true? Because your so pacifistic right? Well maybe it wasn't true, but neither is it true that "hate Arabs more than anything". Maybe I should've taken a look at my post before I make sweeping generilizations about an entire nation on 300 million. Whatever, your idiocy appals me, as does yours Jeremy for actually approving of her posts.

[paulista]

I don't know if I should congratulate you or make an attempt to go back into the past to make sure you were never born.

Well I love you too!!!

I went out of line when i said Americans hate Arabs more than everything. Sorry! Plague, hemeroids, fireants and taxes should lead that list.
When I see that US soldiers died, I don't feel good at all, there is no point in wasting young lives, but they signed that contract knowing they could be killed or wounded, same as doing all other hazardous jobs. I also feel bad when I see civilians killed and listed as "collateral damage" and see a colonel or whatever briefing the public: today, at xy hours at checkpoint xz private yz signaled a vehicle full of children and women to stop, they didn't understand english, so he fired his rifle, eee..., sorry 'bout that, now on with commercials...
The Israelis use the same terminology when they use apaches in refugee settlements in the West bank and Gaza and kill one guy from Hamas and 20 civilians.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no great fan of muslims. I'm no hippypeaceliberalpacifist who believes anyone should do what he wants.
I had my reasons to hate muslims in the past, it was real, personal, not some distant threat, but then I would make a generalization of a whole nation, wouldn't I?

[paulista]

P.S. I'm a guy, not American, and probably won't be posting again, because I'm a net player. I just wanted to see what's happening in the freestyle community, but I couldn't resist temptation when I saw the topic.

And please don't call anyone idiot if you don't agree with another opinion! It could do you harm in the real life! English is not my first language, so some things could sound different to you than to me.
And yes, you just insulted 2 different people in 2 different continents. you don't see that every day

[Jeremy]

I hate all of you "enlightened" liberals who, because of your illumination, think you have the right to be prejiduce towards a whole nation. Way to be, Osama. It's people like you and Jeremy who feel a little good inside, albeit guiltily, when you turn on the news and hear stories of American soldiers dying in Iraq.

Oh wait, was that not true? Because your so pacifistic right? Well maybe it wasn't true, but neither is it true that "hate Arabs more than anything". Maybe I should've taken a look at my post before I make sweeping generilizations about an entire nation on 300 million. Whatever, your idiocy appals me, as does yours Jeremy for actually approving of her posts.

Yes Dan you're right. I party everytime an American dies. You've missed my philosophy on life completely even though I post it all the time. I am a citizen of the world before I am a citizen of any country. When s11 happens I see people killing people. When Iraq gets bombed I see people killing people. Unlike you I don't think it makes any difference where these people come from. I have always argued that I think the s11 attacks were caused in a big part by US policy and I think were inevitable. Just as I am sure that more attacks on US soil will happen soon. In no way is that me saying that I agree with such attacks - of course I am opposed to them. I always try and look at these issues from an objective and unemotional angle though. I want to know why the attacks happened and how they can be prevented and if I let my emotions be part of that question than there's a good chance I'll be misled.

If you actually take the time to read my post in responce to Paulista's you'll see that when I say that I agree with him - in the context of my post I would say it's pretty clear that I'm specifically talking about this comment

If decisions on how to run Israel and Palestine were left to normal people, and not religious fanatics, both sides would probably live in peace and could lead a normal life.

since that's what the whole paragraph is about apart from my first line saying that I agree with him. I'm sorry if that was confusing for you. I said I thought it was a good post because it generates discussion. It raises interesting points and it's confrontational. The majority of your posts in this topic on the other hand are a waste of time. The rules for this forum are pretty straight forward - it's a discussion subforum - not the "kicking circle" or any other kind of subforum. So if all you can post is "i win" don't bother posting at all please. Posts like that will probably be deleted in the future.

[BainbridgeShred]

Oh, and about me missing your entire philosophy (Funny how your brand your views your "philosophy"-Oh so haughty), what makes you think that I feel any differently? Your whole "citizen of the world" speech was so trite. It's pretty much what everyone on here (Including me) believes, so I don't know who or what you're trying to argue.

When s11 happens I see people killing people. When Iraq gets bombed I see people killing people. Unlike you I don't think it makes any difference where these people come from.

Nice attempt to paint me as a flag waving, nationalistic American. Too bad you're wrong, and our beliefs on allegiance to a country are nearly identical. This just goes to show that after about a year of posting on here (Mainly in this forum) that you still think of me as a "stupid American" who can't feel empathy for anyone born in another country. Just goes to show how truly prejiduce you are towards American's, even after they've discussed their views with you (Many of which we share).

Basically, you can see a really clear pattern with all your posts Jeremy: Bash America in politically correct ways>Counter once someone calls you on it with something like "I didn't say ALL Americans were dumb rednecks, I just said the majority of them are. That is a totally rational statement from a totally rational person."







And I'm still winning.

[Jeremy]

um in my last 200 posts I've made 4 about political issues and only 2 mention the US - one to say that I disagree that Panama can be mentioned in a positive light and one today in response to you saying that I feel good when American's die.

And incidentally the word "philosophy" has more than one meaning and going by the context of my last post - I think it was clear that my usage of the word was with the meaning of "A system of values by which one lives" (taken from my favourite dictionary - www.dictionary.com )

Also I have some good American friends - how I post in response to you has nothing to do with how I feel about American's in general. It's interesting that you think my opinion of you in particular can be expanded to my opinion of all American's. Not that I have ever posted an opinion of you.

[sergio]

Outsider said :
Afterwards, the Hezbollah regularly attacked Israeli towns and farms from southern Lebanon with rockets and mortars launched from southern Lebanon, so the Israeli army invaded again, captured and held a twenty mile wide strip of land primarily to create a buffer zone

Some political analysis also say that they stayed to be in control of the river 'nahr el litani' (or something like that..), and that the whole Hezbollah thing is just an excuse. We will never know what really was on their mind, surely a little bit of both, but to what extent is really the question. It is at least something to consider since water has always been a cause of conflicts in this region (Golan Heights etc).
And even if they really stayed because of the rockets fired by the Hezbollah, is that really a valuable reasons? Using the same logic, should the Lebanese Army have entered Israel and take control of their Air Force when they regularly air striked Lebanon (and knowing that the Lebanese government does not support Hezbollah at all)? Should Israel now occupy a strip on the whole Jordanian border because of the rockets that where launched from Aqaba a few days ago (although nothing is really comparable because this does not happen regularly and the authors are isolated individuals, but where should the knife be planted, from what kind of action should it be a valuable reason)?

Paulista said:
Sergio is from France, so he lives among something like 5 million muslims (correct me if wrong) he went to school with some of then, has muslim neighbours, coworkers, probably friends, etc...

Yes, that and the fact that I'm originated from Lebanon and go there every summer, that I've lived 7 years in Dubai (UAE), 2 years in Bahrain, that I've already been to Syria, Jordan, Oman, and that I'm currently doing a 1 month internship in a company in Koweit.. (but I don't speak Arabic..).





And Dan,
I don't agree with Paulista when he says that Americans hate Arabs, generalizations are not right. But it's true that a worrying proportion of Americans are prejudiced against Arabs. But of course, it also goes the other way, a worrying proportion of Arabs are prejudiced against Americans.
And it seems that the fact that people make generalizations about Americans shocks you, but 2 people called Arabs ragheads in this thread, and nobody reacted to that! So is your bragging about it, and only about this side of it, legitimate except for the reason that you're American (may be I'm wrong, are you really American?)?

[BainbridgeShred]

To anyone I may have offended in this post or others, I'm sorry. I might be dying sometime soon, but pray that I don't (Even you atheists ;-D). I stick to my guns though, and it isn't right how you all subtly bag on America or any country for that matter. Anyways, if I stop posting on here, Sam Potter will probably here what happened eventually and tell you guys, but truly I know some of my comments might have been unwarranted 'round here guys. Alright later.

[HighDemonslayer]

paulista wrote:
-----------------------------------------------
P.S. I'm a guy, not American, and probably won't be posting again, because I'm a net player. I just wanted to see what's happening in the freestyle community, but I couldn't resist temptation when I saw the topic.
------------------------------------------------


Don't be scared away, or make assumptions about the freestyle community because of our "debates".

Most kickers are probably blissfully un-aware of all these topics.




This topic is complex, and has ramifications for kickers (and other citizens) in a lot of Western nations.

[paulista]

No,no I won't go away, I'll be present, but more as an observer. Be sure I'm going to make a very smartass, unamerican remark, every once in a while, as I'm quite politically incorect...
As for other topics, they make as much sense to me as looking at comments about any other sport with judges deciding who wins, and I have nothing to post there. All those pixies, dixies, DLO's, mirages, bedwetter????? c'mon is that a name for real?
I'll stay with net, it's in or out, simple as that

[HighDemonslayer]

Don't forget that you have to have a line judge to say in/out.

I've never seen a freestyler cry about a bad call like net players do.




Sports with judges do kind of suck.,Because you always have "robberys".


When I judge freestyle, if I think your music is lame , you wont get first place.


-n



-n

[HighDemonslayer]

Thank You Ariel Sharon

By Ariel Natan Pasko
MichNews.com
Aug 24, 2005

-----------------------------------
Thank you Ariel Sharon, due to your threatened expulsion of the Gazan Jewish community, 100,000's of Israelis visited Gush Katif in the last year, it even became a tourist destination for Diaspora Jews and non-Jewish supporters of Israel's right to settle it's homeland. It brought the largest Jewish presence to Gaza in modern times. More Israelis were interested in Gaza, and connected to the communities there, than ever before.

Thank you ministers Ehud Olmert, Tzipi Livne, Silvan Shalom and others from the Likud; thank you ministers, Shimon Peres, Dalia Itzik, Matan Vilnai, etc. from the Labor Party.

And so as not to "discriminate" against the opposition politicians in Israel; thank you Shinui Party members, Yosef Lapid and Avraham Poraz. Lets not forget MKs Zahava Gal-On, Yossi Sarid and those from Yahad-Meretz, who just as graciously gave Sharon a "safety net" and helped expel the Gazan Jewish community.

I'd also like to thank all those in the Israeli electronic and print media who jumped on the "disengagement bandwagon" to promote an ethnic cleansing campaign in Israel. In particular, I'd like to thank the trinity of Larry Derfner from the Jerusalem Post and Haaretz's Akiva Eldar and Amira Hass, for their constant prattle against "settlers," and their support for Prime Minister Sharon's expulsion plan.

Finally, I'd like to thank Chief Justice Aharon Barak and the Israeli Supreme Court, who upheld the legality of the Sharon government's Gaza Expulsion Plan to expropriate the property - with or without compensation - of Israeli citizens and expel them from their homes. Ten out of eleven Justices ruled that the Disengagement Plan violates the human rights of "property, freedom of occupation and proper respect for the evacuees," but is acceptable in order to achieve political and security aims, therefore setting an important legal precedent for the future.

All these supporters of Sharon's Disengagement Plan believe it is for the best interests of the State of Israel and it's national security.

Why, might you ask, do I thank all these people?

Plain and simple, because it's dawned on me, that as good democratically minded citizens of the State of Israel who supported the "ethnic cleansing" of Jews from Gaza and Northern Samaria today; tomorrow their support can be counted on, if a future Israeli government comes to power that wants to remove Israeli Arabs and the so-called Palestinians, from the historic Land of Israel, for the best interests of the State of Israel and it's national security.

Since I assume that none of these fair-minded people mentioned above, would contemplate treating Jews in a different and inferior way, to the way they would treat Arabs; I assume that none of these fine Israeli citizens who supported the expulsion of their fellow citizens from Gaza and Northern Samaria, would discriminate against people just because they are Jews.

Thoughts of calling them racist, Nazi, Judeo-path, or anti-Semite, might cross one's mind, if that were true - that they only would support the expulsion of "settlers" i.e. Jews - from parts of Israel, but since I'm convinced that's not the case, one needn't worry.

No, these fine citizens, from Sharon and Olmert of Likud, Peres and his Labor colleagues, to the current members of the Supreme Court on down, have opened the Pandora's Box of "ethnic cleansing," never to be shut again.

In the future - I believe not so distant - a Jewish leader can rest assured of the political support of these people, to carry out a "transfer" policy against "enemies" that threaten the lives and welfare of Israel's Jewish population. Based on legal precedent, such policy will demand the support of those who earlier worked to expel Jews from Gaza. If they won't want to be accused of being racists, Nazis, Judeo-paths, or anti-Semites, they will have to support such a policy.

Then again, they can admit the truth...and be prosecuted, by that future Israeli government.

Thank you Ariel Sharon.

[Jeremy]

Hardline extremists like the author of that post are the reason why peace in Israel is so hard. I don't know if you posted that because you agree or disagree but clearly in any conflict (in my opinion) the lack of willingness to compromise means the conflict will continue until one side is destroyed.

The constant rhetoric from pro Israel supports about how God gave them the land, about anti-Semitism and Nazi’s is so counter productive to the cause for peace. Also it’s very ignorant in my opinion to call anybody a Nazi simply based on the way they feel about Jews. Jews have been an oppressed race in a lot of cultures and a lot of cultures have committed acts of genocide against other races. “Nazi” is a very specific term and by throwing it around at every opportunity it really degrades the strength of the word and what it means for the Jewish people. I think it’s also very important to remember that the strongest defining character of the Nazi party was their Nationalism. I really really wish that the supports of Israel could see that – that in many ways it was nationalism that led to the holocaust and not irrational hate for any race. In Israel clearly the enemy of peace is nationalism – on both sides of the conflict.

I would say that people with the views in that article don’t want peace in Israel. They are happy to have their children blown up outside night clubs or at cafes. They are happy to have their army kill civilians in response. They would prefer the conflict and the fear and death to continue than to give up anything for peace.

[BalinorNZ]

Hmmm... I think its just a strategic move. This isnt over, not for a long time.

[HighDemonslayer]

Bombmaker Calls for Eradication of Israel
Aug 27 2:55 PM US/Eastern


By AMY TEIBEL
Associated Press Writer


JERUSALEM


Hamas militants released a videotape Saturday purportedly showing a bombmaker believed to top Israel's most-wanted list celebrating the Gaza Strip pullout as a victory for armed resistance.

Senior Hamas commander Mohammed Deif, who masterminded the deaths of dozens of Israelis in suicide bombings, also urged the destruction of the Jewish state. It was the latest call for continued violence by Hamas officials as the group refocuses its armed struggle on the West Bank, where most of Israel's 246,000 settlers live.

"You are leaving Gaza today in shame," Deif said in comments directed toward Israel, which finished evacuating the last of its 21 Gaza settlements Monday. "Today you are leaving hell. But we promise you that tomorrow all Palestine will be hell for you, God willing."

In the tape, Deif praised the armed struggle against Israel. Hamas has killed hundreds of Israelis since violence resumed in 2000.

"We did not achieve the liberation of the Gaza Strip without this holy war and this steadfastness," he said, adding that attacks should continue until Israel is eradicated.

Israel's obliteration is Hamas' ultimate goal.

Deif, known for operating in the shadows, has eluded Israeli security forces for more than a decade, surviving at least two assassination attempts, including a 2002 missile attack in which he lost an eye.

There was no way to positively identify the figure on the videotape as Deif, because his face was in silhouette. He has been in hiding since 1992 and the only known photos of him were taken in the 1980s.

But the high quality of the video, which was stamped with the logo of the Hamas military wing, as well as the similarity of the voice to previous recordings indicated the tape was authentic.

Hamas would not say when the tape was made. But it had boasted for nearly two weeks that Deif would make a public statement, and militants delivered the tape to The Associated Press offices in Gaza City. The group also posted a transcript of his comments on its Web site.

Gideon Meir, an Israeli Foreign Ministry senior official, said Deif's comments threatened to sour the climate of good will that the Gaza pullout created.

"The disengagement opened a prospect of hope for the Palestinian people and Mohammed Deif is trying to spoil the show," Meir said. "His declaration proves again why the Palestinian Authority must fulfill its duty and fight the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades."

Separately, President Bush also called on the Palestinians to clamp down on militants after the Gaza pullout.

"The Palestinians must show the world that they will fight terrorism and govern in a peaceful way," Bush said in his weekly radio address Saturday.

Tawfiq Abu Khoussa, a spokesman for the Palestinian Interior Ministry, which oversees security in Palestinian-controlled areas, said Hamas remains committed to a cease-fire Israel and the Palestinians declared in February.

"It wasn't secret that a Hamas military wing in Gaza exists, and Mohammed Deif is still alive," he said. "All Palestinian factions are committed to the truce, including Hamas, and we see nothing new in Hamas' position toward the truce."

Hamas has scaled back its attacks since the truce declaration, but Israel says the group is using the lull to rearm. Israel has said any resumption of peace talks would depend on Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' disarming Hamas and other militant groups.

Deif's comments on continuing the armed struggle echoed those made by Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar shortly after the Gaza pullout began. Zahar credited the resistance with driving Israel out of Gaza and said the armed struggle now must move to the West Bank.

Although Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has hinted he would be willing to dismantle small, isolated Jewish settlements in the West Bank, he has made it clear that he sees the Gaza pullout as solidifying Israel's grip on major West Bank settlement blocs, where most Jewish settlers live.

With Palestinian parliamentary elections nearing, the Deif videotape also was Hamas' latest salvo in a power struggle between militants and the Palestinian government over who should receive credit for the Gaza withdrawal.

Hamas claims that years of suicide bombings and rocket attacks drove the Israelis out. Abbas, a vocal critic of violence who aspires to renewing peace talks with Israel, has tried to shore up his standing with promises he can improve life in Gaza after the withdrawal.

In an open challenge to Abbas, Deif rejected calls to disarm, though he said differences between Palestinian groups should be resolved through peaceful dialogue.

"We warn against touching these weapons, and want to keep them as an effective element to liberate the rest of our homeland," he said. "We want to use dialogue to solve any differences in order to protect our Palestinian blood and our national achievement."

-------------------------------------------------------





-n

[Blackend]

was there any point to that post at all?

why do you feel the need to say that they should just kill eachother as if the americans have anything to do with them still being alive. THE U.S. HAS NO BEARING ON THE GAZA STRIP AT THIS TIME. THE PULLOUT IS OF ISRAELI SOLDIERS AND THE DECISION TO DO SO WAS MADE BY THE K'NESSET AND WAS PROPOSED BY ARIEL SHARON.

WHERE DOES THE U.S. HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS!?

are you actually trying to convince uninformed people that the U.S. mediation has anything to do with these israeli settlers still being alive, because you are delusional if that is the case.

Get off your american high horse and consider for just one second that the U.S. isnt doing anything positive here.

~NEL~

Did I say the Americans had any right to be there? No, I did not. I said let them kill each other because it's not our conflict.

[Blackend]

Argh...

I meant to say "Did I say Americans had any right to mediate?" Sorry, I had phone call and didn't read all of it through. If you didn't notice, the US have been trying to mediate there for years and years. I'm saying we let them duke it out for each other. Think before you flame.

[Jeremy]

Clearly that would not be in the best interests of the US at all. Israel being where it is (ie. the middle east) and haveing the amount of support it has from the US (including non government groups) - I think it would be a really really bad decision for the US to not try and bring about peace in the Middle East including Israel. I do think the US has mainly succeeded in making things worse in most of the conflicts in the US but their intention of bring about peace in the region is definitly a good one - not only for American interests but for global interests as well.

[HighDemonslayer]

Looters strip Gaza greenhouses

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/



-n

[HighDemonslayer]

Time to revisit the "withdrawal" and see the predicted peace and harmony :


Hamas' West Bank battle plan exposed,
Terror group to use rockets, guerrilla ops to 'liberate' territory

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=46679

-----------
"[Hamas will be] transporting warfare technologies such as mortars and rockets from the Gaza Strip to the West Bank. These will provide an easy way to bombard Israeli populated areas adjacent to the security fence, and the fence, which is currently under construction, will therefore become useless," stated a recent publication by the Al-Mustaqbal Research Center in Gaza.
----------



--------------
Since Israel withdrew its troops from Gaza last month, Palestinian terrorists have fired over 30 mortars and rockets at nearby Israeli Negev towns. So far, there has been no rocket fire in the West Bank.
----------------\




-n