Cigarette Smoking In Public: Why You're Opinion Is Wrong

[Switch Kicker]

There are facts. And then there are people that claim to have beatendown those facts (Dan Feary), and they haven't.

The facts:
1. Smoking hurts the people around you.
2. Smoking hurts you.
3. Smoking effects the environment.
4. Smoking puts out green house gasses.
5. Smoking is a fire hazzard.
6. Smoking causes money problems for some families.

Fact 1. The government can't allow citizens to harm other citizens. Which happens through secondhand smoke.

Fact 2. The government doesn't allow illegal consumption of things such as mercury, or jumping of a bridge in a suicidal attempt. Killing yourself through smoking is no different.

Fact 3. Take a tank of gasoline, or oil, and stand in front of a IRS official as you dump it down the sewer drain, or in the local park play area. Point proven.

Fact 4. Thought it may not be as bad as driving a car, a cigarette still puts out greenhouse gasses. It's not a major problem, but it addes to the mountain of other problems that smoking causes.

Fact 5. Thought I dont' know the statistics, I still know that there are alot of fires each year started because someone flicked a cigarette into the wrong area of the yard and lights your house on fire.

Fact 6. At almost $4.00 a pack, do you really want your father, who works at Wal-Mart in the paint section, who has 3 kids to take care of, spending $1,500ish (after tax and shit) a year on cigarettes? $3,000 if your mom smokes too. Smoking, in fact, can influence the decision of social services if you can keep your kids or not. They won't take them just because you smoke, but it will influence their final decision.

7. The government has the legal right to make a national law banning cigarettes completely, or partially. Whether or not they will, or should do it, is completely a different discussion. This just proves that they have the legal right to do it.

They are ignoring MY legal rights, by not banning them at least partially.

Peace,
Fred.[/u]

[Switch Kicker]

Now, Dan. Fight that down. And no, I'm not going to reread your 10 page topic.

Fight this down. I already know you can't.

[BainbridgeShred]

Hahaha... You talk about the government and what they're allowed to do to protect you as a citizen, but you don't realize that it's the government really fucking you in the ass. All the food you eat is garbage, and the government allows it to happen. The pollution the government allows is fucking up our entire population who live in major cities. You talk about the green house gases cigarettes give off, and it just makes you look like an idiot.

Then you talk about how it causes money problems for families like it's any of your concern. Stop worrying about other peoples money for God's sake.

And of course the government could ban smoking. Why do you state the obvious? They've already banned many other drugs, and their banning of them has created chaos and extreme violence throughout the country. It's also taxing our prisons to the point where it is absolutely inane to let it go on like this.

The government which you seem to put so much of your faith behind is in the pockets of beer and tobacco people. Pete Coor's nearly won a senate seat in Colorado. A big time drug dealer nearly getting to the senate. How crazy is that?

Your whole theory is inane. Second hand smoking should be allowed in businesses where the owner permits it. Plane and simple. What happens on government property is the governments business, and they can ban smoking on it if they want. It's clear that you haven't read any of my other posts (As you said), because you're arguing against things I'm not trying to prove ro justify.

[gangsta]

All the food you eat is garbage, and the government allows it to happen.

ALL? Maybe just fast-food. Straw-man argument anyway.

The pollution the government allows is fucking up our entire population who live in major cities. You talk about the green house gases cigarettes give off, and it just makes you look like an idiot.

He didn't state anything that isn't true.

Then you talk about how it causes money problems for families like it's any of your concern. Stop worrying about other peoples money for God's sake.

It seems like you only care about yourself, and your addiction.

The government which you seem to put so much of your faith behind is in the pockets of beer and tobacco people. Pete Coor's nearly won a senate seat in Colorado. A big time drug dealer nearly getting to the senate. How crazy is that?

MMmmmm..... Beer... Did you know that the Romans Taxed prostitution?

Second hand smoking should be allowed in businesses where the owner permits it. Plane and simple.

LOL!!!

[BainbridgeShred]

ALL? Maybe just fast-food. Straw-man argument anyway.

Haha. Yeah, only just fast-food buddy. I hope you don't eat any meats bought in supermarkets or vegetables sprayed with weird shit. Have fun with cancer pal. You thought only smokers were going to get it.

He didn't state anything that isn't true.

Find me one study that links cigarette smoke to greater envrionmental hazards. Find me one.

It seems like you only care about yourself, and your addiction.

What are you talking about? How does this correlate to anything you quoted me on? If you're going to argue with me, atleast bring relevent points to discuss, outside of pointing out spelling errors and arguing points I'm not trying to make.

[gangsta]

What are you talking about? How does this correlate to anything you quoted me on? If you're going to argue with me, atleast bring relevent points to discuss, outside of pointing out spelling errors and arguing points I'm not trying to make.

I've already pwned you Sir. Now I'm just talking shit

"The air pollution emitted by cigarettes is 10 times greater than diesel car exhaust, suggests a controlled experiment, reported in Tobacco Control."

Anyway, here's a couple of articles about cigz being bad for the environment (I know you only asked for one...):

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/2005/Feb ... LNspot.htm

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medical ... wsid=12481

http://www.aap.org/research/periodicsurvey/ps42.htm

And, as I've already noted before (with sources), tobacco smoke is the #1 cause of indoor air pollution.

[BainbridgeShred]

You "pwned me"? Way to sound like someone who can formulate an intelligent thought.

Also, all the links you provided did nothing to talk about the GREATER ENVIORNMENTAL HAZARD, which both me and Switch were talking about. The first link talked about cigarette butts as litter, and the last two were in regards to second hand smokes effect on individual health. Switch clearly referred to cigarettes being a factor in the green house effect, not second hand smoke. You're only making yourself look more foolish with each of your posts. I'm still waiting for you to post a link showing cigarette smokings effect on the atmosphere, in regards to green house gasses. Remember, Switch "didn't state anything that wasn't true".

[gangsta]

Cigarette smoke contains Nitrous Oxide phenols (greenhouse gas), carbon monoxide (greenhouse gas), and carbon dioxide (greenhouse gas), as well as many, many other poisonous substances that do not affect 'global warming', but do have a great effect on the health of people and the environment. (Check out that cigarette but article!)

Cigarettes are a lose-lose situation.

[BainbridgeShred]

Cigarette smoke contains Nitrous Oxide phenols (greenhouse gas), carbon monoxide (greenhouse gas), and carbon dioxide (greenhouse gas), as well as many, many other poisonous substances that do not affect 'global warming', but do have a great effect on the health of people and the environment. (Check out that cigarette but article!)

Great, so tell me again, who are you arguing against? Are you going to continue bringing up irrelevent points because you think they are in contention, only to have me explain that no one is even disagreeing with you. You're "pwning" yourself here kiddo. No one is debating that second hand smoke is bad for peoples health. I think we fleshed that out back on page 3-4. If you would have actually taken the time to read anything I said, as opposed to jumping in here like a jackass and sprouting off your opinions like they haven't already been fleshed out, and then thinking you're some fucking genius for bringing up the fact that second hand smoke is harmful.

[BainbridgeShred]

Also, it looks like Switch did state something that wasn't true, counter to your bullshit claim. You really ought to research something even just the littlest bit before throwing out claims and then pulling phony links that do nothing to prove your point.

I wouldn't be sonning you like this so bad if you wouldn't have gotten arrogant with me.

[RunAmuk]

im so dam tired of this thred.
ppl smoking is NOT worth 10 pages.
...count it~

[cammel]

Second hand smoking should be allowed in businesses where the owner permits it. Plane and simple.

I assume you mean smoking should be allowed, because you dont get permitted to second hand smoke, but i'd like to know why you think this. the government puts restrictions on privately owned buisnesses and resurants all the time. they have health inspections, just because its private does not mean that it is untouchable by the government. if the government sees second hand smoke as a serious health risk (like it might see unclean cooking areas or other such things they look for in health inspections) they have every right in the world to make a law saying that it is illegal to smoke. just because the government allows other things that are harmful to people like fast food (which is a bad example because you make a decision to eat fast food and get the bad side effects, you dont decided to breath in the smoke from the guy next to you who just decided to light up) or pollution doesnt mean that it has to allow everything that is harmful or that it cant make something that is harmful like second hand smoke illegal.

the plain and simple truth is that the government does have the right to make something illegal if it thinks it is a risk to citizens, regardless of wether its in a privately owned buisness or not.

I wouldn't be sonning you like this so bad if you wouldn't have gotten arrogant with me.

how can you talk about anyone else being arrogant? im pretty sure everone would agree you're the most arrogant ass on modified. who makes a post "Why You're Opinion Is Wrong"? thats the most arrogant shit ever.

[gangsta]

Dan: Look at page 8-9. I countered ALL of your 'points', and disproved them all. Then, here on page 10, I disproved your other points, that really had nothing to do with your original points.

Are you going to counter my previous points, with which i Pwn3d you with, or are you just going to continue make yourself look like a jackass? So far you've only ignored my counter-points (pg 8-9 incase you forgot).

"Do not complain about the snow on your neighbor's roof when your own doorstep is unclean."

[BainbridgeShred]

Go take a look, I responded to every point you made in page 8-9. If you want to rehash the same old shit again (As you were merely doing on page 8-9) you can, and I'll respond to it again. This thread is getting really easy. I feel like I'm on auto.


"So far you've only ignored my counter-points (pg 8-9 incase you forgot)."

Show me the point I didn't counter, and I'll either respond to it, or explain to you why it was stupid and not worth my time.

[Tsiangkun]

everyone keeps using that word.

I don't think it means what you think it means.

proof.

[gangsta]

Go take a look, I responded to every point you made in page 8-9. If you want to rehash the same old shit again (As you were merely doing on page 8-9) you can, and I'll respond to it again. This thread is getting really easy. I feel like I'm on auto.


"So far you've only ignored my counter-points (pg 8-9 incase you forgot)."

Show me the point I didn't counter, and I'll either respond to it, or explain to you why it was stupid and not worth my time.

On pg 9, my post on aug 03.

Do yourself a favor; retake highschool debate, go through puberty, and stop smoking.

The only thing you keep restating is your opinion, 'the gov. does not have the right to ban smoking in privately owned business'
Why is that your opinion? I'll tell ya! It's because you smoke and you're mad that you have to go outside to partake.

All you have is that opinion. All the 'facts' you presented have been discredited.

Proof: of standard strength, as an alcoholic liquor.

[BainbridgeShred]

[quote]Do yourself a favor; retake highschool debate, go through puberty, and stop smoking.

The only thing you keep restating is your opinion, 'the gov. does not have the right to ban smoking in privately owned business'
Why is that your opinion? I'll tell ya! It's because you smoke and you're mad that you have to go outside to partake.

All you have is that opinion. All the 'facts' you presented have been discredited.quote]

I actually can't think of many businesses I'd smoke in if it was allowed. Besides, most businesses would react anyways when they realized that the majority of the population likes smoke-free air. That's fine by me. I don't care if they kick me outside. Also, some businesses of course would continue to allow smoking, and that'd be cool. It could work out for everyone because it's your choice to enter a business. Stop being pussies.

Give me examples of were you discreditied my "facts". Show me where I have not provided proof. I'm sick of you guys making broad claims hypocritcly, without yourselves backing it up. I haven't denied that cigarette smoke is harmful. I haven't denied that smoking should not be allowed in super markets. I haven't said that you should be forced to bring your kid somewhere where their is a potential for cigarette smoke.

Gangsta, I asked you to back your claim up that I didn't respond to your posts, and you have yet to perform for me.

[gangsta]

I actually can't think of many businesses I'd smoke in if it was allowed. Besides, most businesses would react anyways when they realized that the majority of the population likes smoke-free air. That's fine by me. I don't care if they kick me outside. Also, some businesses of course would continue to allow smoking, and that'd be cool. It could work out for everyone because it's your choice to enter a business. Stop being pussies.

Great! I'm glad you wouldn't force 2nd hand smoke on anybody, and that you don't mind smokin' outside. Maybe bars and perhaps nightclubs should be allowed to be smoking, or non-smoking. However, I do believe that they would ALL choose to be smoking, becuase they would fear losing some business, and that would not be good for non-smoking bar and nightclub patrons. A designated smoking room in that case would definitely be the way to go, and I have seen many that implement such a room. With a designated smoking room in clubs or bars, fire risks are reduced, non-smokers and smokers alike are not exposed to toxic smoke, and smokers would not have to go outside, which I know causes problems in clubs (reentry and such). Everyone wins.

Give me examples of were you discreditied my "facts". Show me where I have not provided proof. I'm sick of you guys making broad claims hypocritcly, without yourselves backing it up. I haven't denied that cigarette smoke is harmful. I haven't denied that smoking should not be allowed in super markets. I haven't said that you should be forced to bring your kid somewhere where their is a potential for cigarette smoke.

The 'facts' that have been discredited are:
-"smoking bans have an incredibly negative effect on particuliar businesses and the economics of a city" This is not true, as Most businesses are doing better than ever, and the businesses that have failed after the ban was put into effect, cannot directly attribute their downfall to the ban.

-Cigarettes DO release greenhouse gasses (Nitrous Oxide, Carbon dioxide, carbon Monoxide)


Our government is a Democracy, (supposedly) by the people for the people; majority rules. If the majority wants smoking bans, that's what they'll get. Although fast food, and vehicles are not good for our health, the majority of americans absolutely adores cars and finds them necessary, and the majority find fast food tasty and convenient. If the majority abhored vehicles and fast food, I can garuntee there would be similar regulations. The minority that hates fast food and cars, can buy organic foods and ride bikes.

What the majority wants, the majority gets. You say 'smoking bans are fine by me as long as they are implemented by the individual biz, not the government.' This because you think it's a step towards socialism. ("I've said it before and I'll say it again; government not allowing a private business to permit smoking, is Socialism."-Dan)
Clearly, the bans have had no impact on our current system of government. Do not fear! We're no closer to being a socialist state than we were before the bans were put into effect.
Is that what this is all about? You're afraid the communists are going to take over, and this a step in their master plan? There are worse things than smoking bans for you to be arguing against.

Im sorry you do not like the way this government works. If you don't like it, you're free to move elsewhere. Of course, your choices would be limited, as the more progressive, appealing, economically stable countries have similar bans.
Of course, the market would've adapted (slowly), the bans simply quickened the process. They solve many more problems than they create (zero problems), and repealing the bans would create many more problems than it would solve (like it would solve Any problems!) So, the ban works, the majority supports it, and studies have shown that more people have quit smoking since the bans were implemented.

The government can, and Im glad they do, impose regulations onto businesses. Health inspectors... How would you like it if they didn't exist? You would say of course that "if the majority doesnt like gross things in their food, the market would adapt, and restaraunts/meat packers/etc would produce cleaner food. yaddi-yaddi-yadda..."
Are Health inspections a step towards a totaltarian government? Just like with the smoking ban, you're crazy to think so.

[Switch Kicker]

You're forgetting about Osha, however, Dan.

Osha's biggest thing is that all employees of a job or sight of employment have the right to work in healthy conditions.

For example. My friend Jammie, who works at the downtown McDonald's in my town, was preparing for FOR week. The week, once a year, where McDonald's corporated comes into your store and inspectes every last and single inch of the store. He was cleaning the siding along the floor because it had not been cleaned for a few weeks. I came in to grab a snack wrap, I was rollerblading around town that day. I saw him, crawling on the floor, in a McDonald's restraunt mind you, underneath benches, that were last cleaned god knows when (The under side of the benches I'm referring to.), and scrubbing the side panels of the floor tile. I immediately asked him what the fuck he was doing down there and he told me that seeing as he was a "Supervisor", and he had signed the contract to become a "Supervisor", he had to do FOR cleaning, which is less than enjoyable... So I went up to Pat, the store manager (I used to work there last summer.), and I called her up to the front. I told her that I wanted the number for Rob, the area manager (Watches over about 5 stores.), talked to him, and told him that if I see any of my friends cleaning on their bellies on that floor again, that I would personally come in during FOR week, and have a nice long chat about the type of shit I've seen going on in that store while I was working there. Sure enough, the next day, they had the proper tool to use to reach under the benches without haveing to crawl under them.

All I would have had to do, was go up and spend 5 of my precious moments, speaking to the FOR guy. And that store would have been shut down within days. I've seen some... very, very disgusting things go on in that store.

Anywho.. that was just an example. Osha, at any time they choose, can pass regulation that there will be no smoking on any business property, or while employees are on the clock.

Whether you beleive, or have the moral thinking, that you have the right to choose the rules for your privately owned business... you don't. Osha can step in at anytime they want, and make you do as they want. Because plain and simple, it's is unhealthy for people to work around smokers, and Osha, can do that, at any time they please.

I usually stop in at a diner at a T&A truck stop outside of town. THere's 3 or 4 other restraunts in there. There is no smoking allowed on the property, what so ever. Not even customers. unless you're in your car. THey usually don't up hold the rule... however there is one prick lifer store manager at the register for T&A's gasoline service, who while occasionally use the loud speaker for the gas pumps and say, "No smoking on the premises sir." And... I just want to hit him sometiems. It's where I get my gas...

Anywho... I was just pointing out... whether you like it or not... that's just how it is. Get over it.

And it's spelt plain, not plane. And there is a difference between a typo and a grammar error, so don't even bother calling out my typos.

And I don't remember his name... but the dude that quoted you... whooped you ass... quite simply.

[BainbridgeShred]

Without reading that post, I knew it was going to be nothing. Absolute nothing.

I've responded to Gansta's post twice now at length, only to have the site tell me I wasn't logged in (Which I'm not sure was true). When I do get around to re-reposting it, I'm certain all of you will finally understand my truth.