Cigarette Smoking In Public: Why You're Opinion Is Wrong

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 18 Feb 2006 15:35

slapdash21 wrote: i dunno what a casino pays, but im guessing that guy could have made as much working at burger king. almost.

Please say you're joking.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 18 Feb 2006 15:50

shredzilla wrote:
slapdash21 wrote: i dunno what a casino pays, but im guessing that guy could have made as much working at burger king. almost.
Please say you're joking.

well, i will relent there, as it's not something that i really know much about. i (apparently) wrongly assumed that casino workers dont get paid much. however, thats definitely not the key point here. im curious why you are so against smoking. you disregard smokers as all stupid, but firstly i know a lot of intelligent smokers, but secondly there is such a large number of them, assuming you havent tried it, maybe you just dont know what you're missing

there are certainly other equally risky behaviors. i really think drinking is close enough to be comparable. technically you're ingesting poison, it affects you neurologically and physically, and the benefit isnt physical so much as it is the experience. both are also widely accepted in society.

dp · Post by dp » 18 Feb 2006 16:53

Yea, but alcohol doesn't affect people near the drinker... (unless the person's drunk).

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 18 Feb 2006 17:14

assuming you havent tried it, maybe you just dont know what you're missing

Sorry, ummm.. no. I smoked 1-2 packs a day for about 9 years (thankfully have been quit for about 3 years now). I'm not "against" anyone, we're just debating a topic. The general argument against smoking around others is that the smokers' behavior hurts the non-smokers. The deeper argument is whether the non-smokers are just dumb asses for being around the smokers in the first place. And my argument is that it's not always as easy as "just leave the situation and you'll be in a smoke-free environment" >> hence my casino example.

there are certainly other equally risky behaviors. i really think drinking is close enough to be comparable.

Really? Do you really think they're comparable? Really? Puh-leeeeeze.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 18 Feb 2006 17:27

slapdash21 wrote:
shredzilla wrote:
slapdash21 wrote: i dunno what a casino pays, but im guessing that guy could have made as much working at burger king. almost.
Please say you're joking.
well, i will relent there, as it's not something that i really know much about. i (apparently) wrongly assumed that casino workers dont get paid much. however, thats definitely not the key point here. im curious why you are so against smoking. you disregard smokers as all stupid, but firstly i know a lot of intelligent smokers, but secondly there is such a large number of them, assuming you havent tried it, maybe you just dont know what you're missing there are certainly other equally risky behaviors. i really think drinking is close enough to be comparable. technically you're ingesting poison, it affects you neurologically and physically, and the benefit isnt physical so much as it is the experience. both are also widely accepted in society.

Hey Pete, please don't put words in my mouth. Also, your statement was grammatically incorrect. What you meant to say was either 'You disregard smokers.' or, 'You regard smokers as stupid.' I stated previously that they are addicted to garbage. The ammount of poisonous chemicals in a cigarrette is staggering. Also, ingesting these thousands of chemicals and then spewing them out at other people is completely rude, invasive of someone's personal space, and you're doing equal or more damage to them than you are to your own body.

There is no benefits from cigarrettes whatsoever, all they do is 'calm your nerves', but if you didn't smoke you wouldn't even get that feeling. I did say before that it's an addiction to garbage. No pluses, only minuses. Drinking is somewhat of a bad habit, but it doesn't violate the personal space and damage to others, and it's also only 1 poison, compared with thousands.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 18 Feb 2006 18:26

They should ban eating your own crap in front of people. Cuz that way no one would be stupid enough to do it.

what does that mean? when it comes right down to it? wouldnt that be calling people who smoke stupid? close enough, in my opinion.
also. hate to tell you, but you are not doing MORE damage to the person receiving second-hand smoke. not even if you blow it directly down their gullet into their lungs (anatomically correct? dunno.) however, i dont think its invading your personal space unless they are...invading your personal space (standing in your face...chest to chest...personal space varies by the person), of which blowing smoke is just another example. what this basically comes down to for me is:

-smokers have the legal right to smoke on public sidewalks and their private homes. legal.
-i personally havent seen many (any?) smokers who go out of their way to be obnoxious with their smoking, and plenty of people are more obnoxious (smokers and non-smokers alike) in other ways...on the train, lack of courtesy, etc
-as i said on the previous page, the one behavior that many smokers partake in, often without thinking, is smoking with a toddler, in your house. closed quarters, small lungs, smoking too much, that i do not find tolerable. however, still a legal right.

drinking causes many problems of its own...broken homes due to alcoholism, etc

reiferman-i said WHY i think they are comparable, in both posts, and your argument was to ask me if thats what i really said?? Puh-leeeeeze at least give an actual response to what i said, not just asking if i really meant it. because i did.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 18 Feb 2006 18:32

But Pete, you're not addressing my main issue of this whole thing. Do you think it's bad, rude, offensive, etc. for people to smoke indoors in a crowded room, or more specifically close to another individual, knowing that the second hand smoke is getting to them and causing them harm. That is when smokers are NOT going out of their way to be respectful.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 18 Feb 2006 19:00

Oh also my analogy (about eating crap in front of people) was meant to reflect that the habit was disgusting, not that they are stupid. And that they are practicing their disgusting habit in the close proximity of others

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 18 Feb 2006 19:07

reiferman-i said WHY i think they are comparable, in both posts, and your argument was to ask me if thats what i really said?? Puh-leeeeeze at least give an actual response to what i said, not just asking if i really meant it. because i did.

You've got your dukes up eh? Ok then.

On why you thought alcohol and smoking are similar:

i really think drinking is close enough to be comparable. technically you're ingesting poison, it affects you neurologically and physically, and the benefit isnt physical so much as it is the experience. both are also widely accepted in society.

This is not really close to being the same. You see, sometimes things can have similarities without being similar. In footbag, you kick something with you feet. You do the same in kick boxing. Yep, they're comparable.

And as someone else wisely pointed out,

Yea, but alcohol doesn't affect people near the drinker... (unless the person's drunk).

Before we forget, we're really talking about the right to affect someone else with smoking.

[All this is in good jest btw. Just debating.]

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 19 Feb 2006 09:40

haha, yeah, im not getting pissed or anything...i dont even LIKE cigarette smokers! especially because most of the smokers i know are under 18 and make me buy them packs. though i am for people not being judged for partaking in activities within their legal right. and if you believe in it, their natural right as a human to hurt yourself.
obviously its LEGAL to smoke indoors (well, in many states not in many bars/restaurants or other establishments, but in private homes, parties, etc its obviously legal). i think im willing to admit its rude if its done at close proximity, but if you're hanging out with someone who isnt willing to confine their smoke to one section of a house, or one corner of a room (the least that can be done), than you may want some new friends. so yes, there is a line for me where it is rude and offensive, if the person is unwilling to relocate their smoking to another area.

the footbag to kick-boxing analogy...too distant for me to appreciate. and as far as the 'drinking doesnt affect other people' argument, i pretty much pictured someone saying that before too long...and he (pirate man) did. but i think thats a too-commonly used generalization that ignores other factors i already mentioned, like alcholism leading to broken homes, abandoned children, homelessness, shortening life span which removes a potential provider. obviously thats all worst-case scenario. haha, i have nothing against drinking at all, especially casual drinkers who im sure only increase risk-factors for shortening their life marginally. also, like pirate man said, if the drinker gets drunk, its more likely to make me uncomfortable than someone blowing smoke in my face. i think its really a personal thing.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 19 Feb 2006 09:42

gad dum lack of edit button.
but i also wanted to say this is an especially friendly debate because i thoroughly intend to visit Philly sometime (as i often do...i have family nearby and a friend or two in local colleges) and play some footbag with whoever happens to be around

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 19 Feb 2006 09:55

Yo whatever Bowler. It's personal now! haha.

Yeah, there's really nothing left to argue. We both know cigs and alcohol are bad for you, the only thing is cigarette smoke is super toxic and leads to death of others around you. Smokers should be considerate enough not to F'N smoke indoors. That's the bottom line. It's poluting an indoor environment, and they know very well that there are non-smokers in the room. If it takes something as drastic as a ban for people to stop pissing on other people, then I guess I'm okay with that at this point. *Cough*

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 19 Feb 2006 11:58

Nice.. I love it when a debate turns into a potential visit to Philly

If you do, let me know and we'll kick

JoFa · Post by **JoFa** » 26 Feb 2006 18:15

I have only one opinion on smoking. I have asthma and whenever I walk near smoke it gets hard to breathe. My doctor says my asthma was likely developed through secondhand smoke from my babysitters. I think smoking is stupid and harms others. In private? No problem. But don't risk other people's health.

RunAmuk · Post by **RunAmuk** » 05 Jun 2006 16:14

i would love to post my wrong idea on smoking
i smoke
when ever . where ever, except in a bar cus CA is full of wusses
but esspessally when im hackin i even lit up durrin a net game the other day.
noone has ever asked me to put it out or anything
im not to sure how id handle that.
smokers are people to.
and must of us can kick you ass

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 05 Jun 2006 18:34

It's pretty undesputable, people who smoke are generally more interesting than those who don't. I'd take a girl who smoked over the rest any day.

MegaFighter_X · Post by **MegaFighter_X** » 06 Jun 2006 00:56

In the spirit of debate... playing devil's advocate a bit.

shredzilla wrote:But Pete, you're not addressing my main issue of this whole thing. Do you think it's bad, rude, offensive, etc. for people to smoke indoors in a crowded room, or more specifically close to another individual, knowing that the second hand smoke is getting to them and causing them harm. That is when smokers are NOT going out of their way to be respectful.

I see your point. But I can also counter with this. "Excuse me sir/ma'am, but could you please put that out? it's really bugging me." Courtesy works wonders.

NOW: back to the REAL topic of this thread. Private businesses should have an option of allowing smoke on their property. If they don't allow smoking there, have say... 20, 30 feet of distance from the enterances and exits before you can smoke. If there's a chain of them, you coudl end up walking the whole block away. Now it's the smoker's choice to do that.

If you go to a business that allows people to smoke (assuming to give them your business, not to just meet up for 10 seconds to save the galaxy, or whatever), that's your choice to go in there and affect your health though that.

In public on the sidewalk, only if in violation of the business first mentioned, thats where i could see problems. But beyond that, nothing. The best thing you can do is to politely ask them to put it out or someething to that degree. The worst you'll (probably) get is a no, at which point you need to vacate where you are at if you're that offended by mentioned smoke.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Jun 2006 10:18

I've said it before and I'll say it again; government not allowing a private business to permit smoking, is Socialism.

Government not allowing smoking on public sidewalks but allowing there airways to be filled with pollution from giant corporations, is Consumerism.

American's (And a lot of the West) is just fucking ass-backwards as far as drug policy. It's been proven that second hand smoke is actually very harmless, unless you're around a smoker (Say a spouse or parent) for a very extended period of time. The guy on the elevetator lighting up isn't taking years off your life. Your lungs will heal themselves fine.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 07 Jun 2006 15:39

Pirate Man wrote:Yea, but alcohol doesn't affect people near the drinker... (unless the person's drunk).

i threw up on a net player at worlds 04. tell me that doesn't affect people!!!

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 10 Jun 2006 12:07

BainbridgeShred wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again; government not allowing a private business to permit smoking, is Socialism.

Government not allowing smoking on public sidewalks but allowing there airways to be filled with pollution from giant corporations, is Consumerism.

American's (And a lot of the West) is just fucking ass-backwards as far as drug policy. It's been proven that second hand smoke is actually very harmless, unless you're around a smoker (Say a spouse or parent) for a very extended period of time. The guy on the elevetator lighting up isn't taking years off your life. Your lungs will heal themselves fine.

OK, I'll give you that. If you hang around one person who smokes once a month in an elevator, it won't affect you at all.

However, it's impossible to debate the second hand smoke isn't harmful, and is like saying asbestos is harmless.
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/conte ... or_Air.asp