Cleveland Gun shooting

max · Post by **max** » 10 Oct 2007 10:35

Just heard (on French TV) that a school shooting happenne in Cleveland 1h ago.

Five injured and shooter is dead is the only information i could find.

dp · Post by dp » 10 Oct 2007 11:40

cnn.com has got it covered. Shit, when I read this it freaked me out cuz my brother is going to Case Western Reserve in Cleveland and there was a big shooting there in the early 90s.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 11 Oct 2007 05:35

Yeah, this school shooting was stupid. (As all school shootings are.)

"What? You're suspending me? Well fuck that..." *Comes in dual wielding handguns.*

What the hell was he trying to accomplish? He didn't even kill anybody. (Take note, I'm not saying he should've killed anybody.) And then (Like many school shoot-em-uppers) he kills himself. How thick can ya get?

I was personally more interested with that Deputy who killed a bunch of people and then killed himself by shooting himself in the head, three times with a .40 caliber handgun. I can't only ask, "How" in response to that. Three times in your own head? Fuck that. Must've hurt to live through the first two rounds.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 11 Oct 2007 05:49

I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many shootings like this in america..... glad to be living down under right now.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 11 Oct 2007 06:04

james_dean wrote:I'm still trying to figure out why there are so many shootings like this in america..... glad to be living down under right now.

Media and the evening news is to blame.

If the country's safety was based on who has more guns, the US would be the safest country in the world. Our country is also the most easily scared country. Every god damn person I know (including my parents) locks their doors at night, when they leave, and sometimes even when we're just sitting at home. Every time you turn on the news, it's some crap about how you should be afraid of this disease for this reason, or there was a murder in your town, (but the news crew makes it sound like it's up the street) and they scare you into not wanting to go outside unless you have to. In a country that's scared out of it's mind of Arabs, Russians (still!!!), and even their neighbors, how smart is it to have as many guns as we do.

What kind of news do you see in other countries? Not the same crap plastered on US television. How many people are murdered with guns in other countries? The US double just about every other country in the world. Yet, the US doesn't have anywhere near as violent of a past as most other countries. What's Germany's death toll by guns? Like, 200ish? Yet they have the biggest genocide in history to their name barely 50 years ago.

I think it's a marketing scheme. Watch the news at night, get scared into buying products to protect yourself.

What's the American's number one answer to what they would do if a complete strange came waltzing onto their property? Use a gun to scare them off.

I personally think all guns should be banned. If it doesn't kill deer, it doesn't belong here, at all. I mean, yeah, I love messing around with my buddy's weapons. His civi M-4 is just tits to shoot. But I can definitely live without it.

Every time I see that one dude from the AGA, "From my dead cold hands..." I think, "Well that can be arranged you fuckin' asshole."

The Second Amendment was created BEFORE corruption in the government, and BEFORE we had really, REALLY stupid children in school. Times change, and the laws needs to change with them.

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 11 Oct 2007 06:09

gun laws duh.. an tv probably. usa likes to censor nudity ("indecent" exposure) and bad language but never violent movies. kinda weird to me.
so its seemingly not ok to curse and not okay to see some titties or lets just say big tits in a bra but its ok to have ppl like arnie blow up the whole god damn block and guns ah blazin shootouts. don't get me wrong though, I enjoy good action movies. its just the weird mentality I think it creates.

how can a person shoot himself three times in the head with a .40 caliber?

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 11 Oct 2007 06:23

guns suck

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 11 Oct 2007 06:26

I think I brought this up last gun shooting in the US, but there are some fantastic statistics from Phil Zuckerman and Gregory Paul about the relationship between social insecurity and religious beliefs. The less safe people feel their lives are (including perceived risk of violence) the more likely they are to be religious. This trend is seen in the gap between the developed and developing worlds, and especially between the rest of the developed world and the US.

Something worth thinking about.

Iron Clad Ben · Post by **Iron Clad Ben** » 11 Oct 2007 13:09

"Violence rules guns are cool and we've got guns in our school!!"

Why in America? Because we have this antiquated notion that guns are a good thing and we all have the right to have them (yes I know it's an amendment to the US constitution). We are full of conservative idiots who can't get with times and realize our country are better off without them. They have conservative think tanks which cherry pick facts to try to try make it look like guns protect us and keep us safe. Do they really? I don't think so, but it's tough to see the truth through all the spin on both sides of the argument.

Are the gun control laws in Australia similar to that of the UK? I'm not familiar with them.

Bringerofpie · Post by **Bringerofpie** » 11 Oct 2007 13:25

Before anyone else tries to refute the second amendment, it doesn't say a word about self-defense, guns for sport, or anything else besides the preservation of the state.

"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 12 Oct 2007 01:32

well yeah, when I said "I'm still trying to figure out" I really was thinking gun laws, but didn't want to turn this into another gun debate. Actually, screw that.

I saw an article on some coffee table book about guns in america. They had pictures of families sitting around with their little kids and cradling m4a1's etc, I'm like geez there's no justification for that. They had a few excerpt's and they were saying how they need to "protect their family" and the way they were talking was as if the US was some kind of vigilante state where you have to protect your own ground because no one else will? I thought what a terrible attitude, such paranoia

obviously this doesn't prove anything at all but I thought it was a bit disturbing.

I definately see some sense in the mantra "if you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns" but it makes me wonder how these kids get a hold of weapons to go nuts with? I'd swear I heard of some 10yr old doing the same thing the other day, was that this shooting?

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 14 Oct 2007 19:05

Lots of ignorance being displayed so far.

Blame the media , and then blame the guns.

Then blame the right itself.

I should start questioning some of you folks' freedoms, in your overseas utopias.

You can always choose to be a defenseless shmuck for yourself and your family, but don't force the rest of us to be pawns.

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 15 Oct 2007 07:59

I can't see why having a gun has anything to do with freedom. Can you explain that point a bit more?
People should give me my freedom so I can ride a tank around town with my Ak47s, grenade launchers, and just to make sure nobody messes with me I'll put some mines around my front lawn.
I'm so glad I don't live in the USA where people are aloud to carry guns.. not just having one I mean carrying one. Oh, wait thats right you never know if somebody is going challenge you to a showdown at high noon.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 15 Oct 2007 09:45

Wu_ wrote:I can't see why having a gun has anything to do with freedom. Can you explain that point a bit more?
People should give me my freedom so I can ride a tank around town with my Ak47s, grenade launchers, and just to make sure nobody messes with me I'll put some mines around my front lawn.
I'm so glad I don't live in the USA where people are aloud to carry guns.. not just having one I mean carrying one. Oh, wait thats right you never know if somebody is going challenge you to a showdown at high noon.

Where do you live? Germany? And where's your second home? The US? Yeah, you can carry a gun in both counties.

After reading into 15 state's laws, I'm going to assume that you need a permit to carry a handgun in all US states. And the only thing required to carry a handgun in Germany is a permit to purchase/acquire a gun, and a permit to carry.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 15 Oct 2007 09:48

Btw, most gun permits (at least in Minnesota) require that you be in possesion of more than $500 cash in order to carry your hand gun. And even then, it cannot be concealed, and in most cases must be properly stored away and unloaded.

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 15 Oct 2007 12:08

I just read a few parts from the german gun law and the gun permit to carry a gun (not transport a gun) without a serious reason should be pretty much impossible unless your going to find some loophole and lie about it. And even so you can't shoot a gun without permission. So the only people really carrying guns in Germany are the police, security people (and even in the security department it isn't that easy to find a good reason to have a gun) and hunters. They have a law on carrying guns by tradition for certain occasions but I don't see how you could get a permit though. You have to belong to some club and all kinds of things that are a bases for this excuse by tradition.
You cannot get a gun permit by saying your life is in danger and that carrying a gun would significantly lower this risk.

The US (and yes this is my second home and sometimes I wish it wasn't) on the other hand issues permits to carry concealed weapons all the time. The most it takes is a class on CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) and no felony convictions. The max I have seen on these classes was 12 hours.
And even if you were to take some stupid classes for 100 hours I still don't think it is right to be carrying a gun no matter what.
Mankind is known to be pretty fucking stupid when it comes to reasoning with oneself in situation involving emotions.

Just as a comparison it takes over 40 hours to get a fishing license in Germany and for example Bavaria they only have the exams ones a year.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 15 Oct 2007 13:47

Just as a comparison it takes over 40 hours to get a fishing license in Germany and for example Bavaria they only have the exams ones a year.

and that sounds good or logical to you???

Mankind is known to be pretty fucking stupid when it comes to reasoning with oneself in situation involving emotions.

so we NO ONE should have things they think they have the right to because we're all too stupid? or there should be a higher class of individuals that are in charge of making decisions and weilding guns? and you're ok with that?

i wasnt interested in a gun before but the fact that its nearly impossible to legally possess one in germany makes me want one.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 15 Oct 2007 14:23

Certain states (Don't know how many) do not allow concealed guns at all, whatsoever. Minnesota is one, I know that. I'm really not in the mood to go look up the others. Maybe tomorrow. heh.

Wu_ · Post by **Wu_** » 15 Oct 2007 15:23

slapdash21 wrote:
Just as a comparison it takes over 40 hours to get a fishing license in Germany and for example Bavaria they only have the exams ones a year.
and that sounds good or logical to you???

Well it sort of makes sense that the government wants to control the fishing so that people don't tend to over fish oblige more so to the fishing laws. Certain laws on fishing are important so that nature can recuperate.
On the other hand I probably will not go through the whole license thing and it sucks that I can't just go out fishing with my friends (even though I do sometimes because I don't give a shit. I'm honest ^^) without worrying about the police showing up.

Mankind is known to be pretty fucking stupid when it comes to reasoning with oneself in situation involving emotions.
so we NO ONE should have things they think they have the right to because we're all too stupid? or there should be a higher class of individuals that are in charge of making decisions and weilding guns? and you're ok with that?

i wasnt interested in a gun before but the fact that its nearly impossible to legally possess one in germany makes me want one.

It doesn't have anything to do with stupid. The thing I mean is more about people losing their mind when things go wrong in their life.
I can give you an example from my own experience. I have always felt this way about dangerous weapons that are easily life threatening e.g. guns. My friend for example is really a good guy and I always felt that he would never do anybody wrong as far as violence goes. One day though he came home and his girl was cheating on him with another guy. The guy with still at his place taking a shower. He really freaked out and was in such a rage that he grabbed the closest knife went to the bathroom and stabbed the guy. Luckily the guy was able to react fast enough and protected himself with his arm and was stabbed in his forearm. My friend went to jail for 17 months. It was his first conviction.
If he had had a gun nearby it would of probably wouldn't of went that lucky. He told me this and also said that the rage he felt was blocking out his mind.
I know that not all people react this way but I feel that if somebody I loved was hurt or even murdered by another I could easily get into a rage on that.
So it really has nothing to do with stupidity but more with human nature imo.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 16 Oct 2007 09:54

A population having guns assists protecting free speech.

Because government goons, and common criminals (the same?) could come visit you when the dislike your modified opinions, for example.

Why not threaten enough people with in-your-face thuggery, to silence all opposition??

The goons need to fear being shot in the back when they go on visits like that.

You don't have to do the shooting, but you should at least enable your neighbors to have the opportunity.

Governments, (and attorneys), already try to limit debate and truth right now. Endless laws and speech codes, march through "enlightened" legislatures everyday.

Notice the nations or states that have the tightest gun control, also have stringest speech laws/fines/prison sentences.

Truth becomes a crime.

Populations with little or no arms, will always have their "rights" limited (or abolished) by a group with guns.

------------------------
So as long as the right to drive around a tank with an AK is your view of gun rights, you wont understand.

Do people use outrageous, disgusting examples of free speech as reasons for eliminating all speech protections?

I use speech as an example because people seem to value it so much.

-hds