Awe Time

[Zeb Jackson]

your brian is located inside your head, and the only ways to access it are through tissue and bone, making it closed.

[Jeremy]

As you get older your mind does get cluttered.

My position actually has nothing to do with "mind clutter?...

So maybe next time you decide to try and dissect my statements to find the holes, use the points I'm actually trying to make.

[Blue_turnip]

Ya'll aren't backing up your statements. Prepare to get owned.

I don't feel owned. I was expecting tremors of pwnage rock my body like a seizure. In future if you claim you're going to own people, back up your statement with some actual pwnage. Kthx.

Tweedle dee says there can be no meaningful subdivisions of time (which I agree is a continuum) yet all around us there are human created perceptual subdivisions for worker bee synchronization. I never said that actual time wasn't constant. Score well in reading comprehension? I think not.

Whoops, time isn't constant. And noone said that you said it wasn't constant. I don't usually try and get really technical on people's asses because I want to avoid being a pretentious prick like yourself but if you had argued plainly that time isn't constant then that'd be one valid thing coming out of your shit-spewing mouth.

I like using long words as well but I get the impression that you just pump them out to hide from the fact that your argument sucks. I feel secure enough about my intelligence to admit I have no fucking clue what the following statement means: "yet all around us there human created perceptual subdivisions for worker bee synchronization". If you were really such a smart cunt then I'm sure you could have figured out a plainer way to say it. I suppose when you describe the last time you ate a potato with a fork you'd wang something out like 'I utilized a multi-tined tool to process a starch resource'.

Tweedle dumb says he cant perceive things in ways that he has not already been conditioned to... Again, and again, and again. I would have at least expected you to try and back up your statements. At least make this a challenge. If you can prove to me I'm wrong, then I'm all for learning something new, unlike you who cant even digest new ideas unless they fall within your comfortable paradigm.

I don't know who you're addressing in this paragraph. But please explain why we'd have to prove you wrong. The onus is on you for proof of your absurd claims.

I can digest new ideas that don't fall in my 'comfortable paradigm' (such as newtons first law of motion). When they're stupid ideas such as yours they just get shat right back out again.

I impart ideas to people who are receptive to them, in hopes that we humans can slowly evolve towards a more enlightened, meaningful future.

Well how noble of you.

God your kids are gonna be the same fucking way, and then they can argue with my kids, who will at least understand why your ideas perpetrate, but cant see the beauty in you, because its such a boring shitty existence where everything is your own stupid way, and there is no room for change or learning.

Thankyou for fortifying my decision not to have kids.

But I suppose I shouldn't let your 3 attempts at meaningless unsubstantiated GARBAGE oppinions, detract from the fact that I am opening peoples minds without drugs.. with ideas.

Oh you're such a fucking prophet aren't you.

You fucking thought the earth was flat back in the day didn't you? You thought eclipses were Gods wrath and not flying hopovers... I mean celestial shadowcasting. Oh well, its whatever. Its hard not to be mad, but I guess I should feel sorry for you, since you have continuously maintained your half reasonable states, while I and others like me slowly creep forward in our understanding of existence. Enjoy your fear of death, cowards.

What so you think you'd have been the one to suggest that the world was round?

Yes, this is personal. And personally, I wish your existence was separate from mine. But, I realize this is a nice test of my patience and humility and barriers, which I still have to work on. But I'll still post this because you deserve it. Fuck it, a little anger gives me drive to find ways to shoot down your weak memes with stronger ones of my own.

Jesus you're so full of yourself. Its so cute how you think you've 'shot down' our weak memes with 'stronger ones'.

So, please, go ahead and drivel some more. Lets see what you got. Cuz right now,

you just got owned.

[Applause]

ps I'm only 4 days sober, you better step your game up for when my head REALLY clears out.

Plz dun hurt me kthx.

Also, just because you can't see something, doesn't mean its not there, idiot

And just because that statement is true doesn't mean that things we can't see exist. Thats a logical fallacy. Theres no point trying to argue for something which you can't see because you'll never know if it exists or not. The odds of any given unseen thing existing is very slim because there are an infinite amount of potential unseen things. So for all intents and purposes you might as well assume that if you can't see something, it doesn't exist.

Apparently another rule of time is: no matter how much passes, Blue Turnip doenst get any smarter.

Grats you've been sober for 4 days!

[Scott]

What I got from the first post of this thread is two basic generalizations

1. As we get older we perceive time to pass faster; and
2. As we get older our minds become more cluttered and therefore we spend less time appreciating our surroundings.

If this is correct then I would say that I completely disagree with these two generalizations. In fact I would say that as a generalization the opposite is true.

Firstly, as we get older we perceive time to pass more slowly.
Evidence of this is that when you are having fun and focusing on the moment time does appear to pass quickly. This is a circumstance that I would associate more with children and youth.

I think the saying time fly's when you're having fun certainly applies. And it is hard to imagine that an 80 year with crippling arthritis is having much fun at all and certainly not more than a carefree 10 year old whose only care is getting to the next level on a computer game (or whatever it is that kids do these days).

Secondly, as we get older we realize that time is running out and so we begin to appreciate the small things in life more, even if our minds are a little more cluttered.

[james]

This is the second time I've had to write this, fucking website timed out when I hit the submit (note to self COPY ALL THE TIME). An hours worth of careful word selection, sentence formation and fertilization of ideas down the drain. It was a profound emptiness I felt when I realised it was lost forever at it's very culmination. I thought I should just let it lie and not bother, but that would have been even worse than simply losing what I'd written. TIME MATTERS!
So, here's a skeletonized doppelganger of what I'd written.

It was far more effective the first time. This one lacks the vengefulness of the first but perhaps it's for the better.

AHEM

First of all I don't see the need to get 'personal'. You shouldn't be posting in here if you can't deal with people disagreeing with you.

I don't have to back up my statements. They're self-evident.

One should be discerning; an idea should have to pass through the finest of mental sieves before it is accepted as valid or truthful. This is how I approach everything I see and hear. Unfortunately most people are not equipped with such devices and are subject to all manner of subjectivism. Reality is not a subjective thing.
I don't believe. I accept.
I could never convince YOU of anything, you however could convince ME of something, if it of course correlates with everything else that has passed through the myriad filters and sieves. If it continues to build upon all the other laws and patterns of reality. You call this close-mindedness whereas I call it awareness.

I cherish every time I can communicate with someone in a meaningful way. Though it has failed here, at the very least it allowed me to fine tune and articulate that which I already knew. So I thank you for that. My awareness has increased. What have you learned? That I'm a closed-minded douche who doesn't know what he's talking about? I coulda saved you the trouble and flipped you the bird.

This is all I have to say on the matter. You will not hear more from me unless you offer more than childish retorts.
I'll give you mine:

Usefulness precedes humility.

Water under the bridge Bob, water under the bridge.


Sam, I will agree with you on one thing. I am in awe of time.

[CautionFragile]

So I'm guessing that because I use the words mind clutter in one sentence, that's the only thing I'm talking about right Jeremy?

Also, did I say, " this if for the closed-minded Jeremy"??

Also, I'm not sure if you noticed, but I do state in my first long post that it is possible to get better at clearing your mind and experiencing the moment. I meditate on a regular basis to clear my mind and cultivate my chi.

So for the closed-minded statement, maybe I used the wrong choice of words. You're right Jeremy, I'm a jerk with stupid opinions. You're absolutely perfect and have a clear mind all of the time.
There, is your dick big enough to fill your dad's asshole yet?

[james]

that was pretty vulgar

has everyone lost their mind or what?

[QuantumBalance]

Oh my god, I havent even read all this yet, but the first half of what Blue Turnip wrote is so FUCKING funny.

I'm so happy right now. multi tined tool to process a starch resource! THAT WAS AMAZING!

Im loving the mental beating!!

[QuantumBalance]

Ok, well I still have yet to read anything that changed my mind about my ideas about the perception of time, but I think I will def. be able to learn some stuff from this thread. I gotta say I didn't expect Blue's response to be so fucking amazing! I'm really not trying to be patronizing by saying this, I feel that me getting ripped one was totally worth it for some of the humorous statements that my thoughts involked.

I don't feel owned. I was expecting tremors of pwnage rock my body like a seizure. In future if you claim you're going to own people, back up your statement with some actual pwnage. Kthx.

Gold!

I like using long words as well but I get the impression that you just pump them out to hide from the fact that your argument sucks

My argument may be what it is. But, I actually just use the words that I believe best impart my thoughts. So, I'm just saying I don't go out of my way to be choosy with my diction.

I suppose when you describe the last time you ate a potato with a fork you'd wang something out like 'I utilized a multi-tined tool to process a starch resource'.

Dude whats your profession? cuz this is fucking AMAZING! And, you are multi-lingual yeah? I'm just guessing cuz you live in Singapore...

When I said I impart ideas to people ... that humans can ... meaningful future...

I mean I really believe that. Like, I know I'm not the best at ... pretty much anything, but I really do have good intentions, I just want you to know that. I guess I should look up the def of prophet.

Wikipedia says:

In religion, a prophet (or prophetess) is a person who has directly encountered the numinous or the divine and serves as an intermediary with humanity.

Well, I'm not sure about this. I would guess that anyone is capable of directly encountering the source of life since we are all alive. I would imaigine its just the people who are open to the idea, which is a fraction less than all or people. I am a musician really but I use my music to try and inspire people. I know you were being sarcastic when you said I'm such a fucking prophet, but still, you make me think about my purpose and what not.

The odds of any given unseen thing existing is very slim because there are an infinite amount of potential unseen things. So for all intents and purposes you might as well assume that if you can't see something, it doesn't exist.

Hmmm... this is good food for thought. I have heard this idea before, but also there is the idea that infinite variations all exist across multi dimensions, but really I don't know. Occom'z Razor though, yeah? So I would agree with you I think.

I wrote:
No matter how much time passes, BT doenst get any smarter.

But, based on your response, I can see a lot more of your intellect and style now. Honestly, all the previous jabs in other threads you have never shown yourself to me to be someone capable of higher intelligence and style (like I said)... maybe you just didnt have the motivation. I'm not dissing, I know how it is to be unmotivated. Like, you probably do a lot in your life that you are motivated in, and you don't always wanna come home and use that time and energy on a hack forum. But I'm glad you did this time!!

One should be discerning; an idea should have to pass through the finest of mental sieves before it is accepted as valid or truthful.

Man, this sentence is rocking my world. Its not such a complex thought, at all really, but... its an actual reason why there are so many skeptics. It all makes sense now!!

I cherish every time I can communicate with someone in a meaningful way. Though it has failed here, at the very least it allowed me to fine tune and articulate that which I already knew.

I don't think its failed completely.

Usefulness precedes humility.

This is a REALLY good one for me. First of all, I wasn't even humble. But, I do think I was useful though. I still believe my perception of time over the alternatives presented so far. And, there were other people that agreed with me, so it's not like I'm the only one here. But, I do see the idea that just because someone might achieve poise and humility, doesnt mean their tactfulness outweighs the benefits of being useful.


So, all in all, I'm sorry I'm such an imature person sometimes. I will say that I have been around here longer than most (I was the 15th person on here) and I have been doing shit like this since I got here! Lol, but I also have slowly been getting better. I don't regret anything I said here though, because of the amazing responses that it involked. I def have more respect for BT now, because that shit was hillllllarious!!

I'm so fucking hung over. Nap time!! PEACE!

[Zac Jackson]

so much hate, remember this is a Discussion thread, as in discussing each others views and opinions, technically neither of you are right or wrong

[QuantumBalance]

For the record, they started hating first. Go back and read it. I was chillen then Jeremy and BT came in being dicks! Its cool though. Pussies like me need dicks... oh wait... FUCK!

[Zac Jackson]

i didnt accuse anyone of the hate, i just said there is hate. its to be expected though here i guess. I still think is a very interesting topic to tihnk about. like I remember Days feeling so much longer when i was younger, and yeah time was slower it felt compared to now.

[CautionFragile]

As far as what I wrote, sorry if it offended anyone, but I was just defending myself at what I considered an obvious attempt to make me look stupid. My bad

[Jeremy]

You and Sam behave like children. Ollie has an excuse, because he is a child. You are adults, try to remember that.

So I'm guessing that because I use the words mind clutter in one sentence, that's the only thing I'm talking about right Jeremy?

Did I ever say that was the only thing you were talking about? All I originally said was a single line saying that comments like that one were rubbish because they were extremely generalised and everybody experiences things differently. I didn't attribute the statement to anybody, and there were certainly a lot more of those kinds of statements than the random 2 that I picked.

Also, did I say, " this if for the closed-minded Jeremy"??

You directly quoted my post and in your response talking specifically about what I wrote you said; "but you can never have too many examples for the close-minded." It seems very clear that your statement was referring to me, since the rest of that post is referring to my comment. If you were not referring to me then I wouldn't say that I've misinterpreted what you wrote, but that you should learn to communicate in a clearer manner. I would find it hard to believe that you there was a communication error in that post.

Also, I'm not sure if you noticed, but I do state in my first long post that it is possible to get better at clearing your mind and experiencing the moment. I meditate on a regular basis to clear my mind and cultivate my chi.

Sure, and this just goes to further demonstrate my original point, that gross generalisations like claiming that everybody's minds get more cluttered as they get older are completely wrong. You are personally another example of why that statement is wrong. You'll have to excuse me though, because I can't see where you state that anywhere. I count 6 posts from you in this topic, and none of them mention you doing anything to clear your mind.

So for the closed-minded statement, maybe I used the wrong choice of words.

Given the rest of this paragraph, I'm not sure if this is a genuine statement or not. I'd still like an explanation as your to claim. If it was the wrong choice of words, what did you mean when you said it? How would you say whatever you meant now? People with views like yours are stereotyped as claiming that anybody who disagrees with them are "close-minded."

You're right Jeremy, I'm a jerk with stupid opinions.

I've never claimed that. Being wrong about something doesn't make you stupid. For months I've been promoting group evolution after reading an essay by David Sloan Wilson and E. O. Wilson. A month or so ago I read a counter argument from Richard Dawkins, and immediately understood why I was wrong. I don't feel stupid because of it. In both instances I was convinced by the evidence, rather than my own opinions. I think that's a good thing. Having the evidence presented to you, but continuing to believe the opposite is close-minded.

[quote="CautionFragile]You're absolutely perfect and have a clear mind all of the time.[/quote]I never claimed to be perfect or to have a clear mind all the time. I am fully aware of my own imperfections. I did state that my mind is a lot clearer now than it was a few years ago.

There, is your dick big enough to fill your dad's asshole yet?

My father died almost exactly 18 years ago (within a couple of days) of a brain haemorrhage and I never really knew him. I strongly believe that resorting to personal insults like that one in a discussion is either a sign of a weak argument, weak social skills or a lack of self control. I know that occasionally I do the same thing, although I would never say something as profane as your statement, and I always regret this and think of it as a personal weakness that I'm working to get better on.

[QuantumBalance]

I didnt say that it was unavoidable to have to have your mind get cluttered as you grow older. Being aware of something lets you change it. I also agree that everyone experiences time differently. Generalizations are sometimes stated so that they may be avoided. It was more of a what can and does happen a lot than what must happen.

I dont want to keep acting like a child and resorting to insults.

[BainbridgeShred]

This is your position;

Everybody who gets older has a more cluttered mind than they did when they were younger.


This is my position;

Different people behave differently. Some have more cluttered minds as they get older, others do not.

If this is really what this argument boils down to, then all of you are fucking idiots in my opinion.

[Blue_turnip]

It takes a lot to respond to my truly aggressive post in a calm manner, so I must say I'm impressed (And happy because I'm not in the mood for arguing).

Ty for teh compliments.

After Jeremy's post I've decided I should probably refrain from getting all hyped up in the discussion forum (thats to put it mildly).

If this is really what this argument boils down to, then all of you are fucking idiots in my opinion.

I don't get why you think we're all fucking idiots because one element of the argument boils down to something very simple. Thats often the case in debates, its just noone can think of a simple way to put it. If the post you're quoting hadn't been made, would you still have said what you said?

[QuantumBalance]

I have a cool ability that no matter how mad I am about something, in the hottest of moments (or any other) I can and will ALWAYS respond to good humor. My 3x and I used to argue and then something funny would happen and I would laugh and suddenly be happy. This happens because I am very appreciative of life. It would totally disorient her, rightfully so.

I say 3x but I love this person very much.

But yeah. So, back on topic. Do you have any reasoning to refute my fractional theory. So far people have only said things like, no this is ridiculous, or you cant generalize the way people experience time.

It IS ridiculous, but it is also logical and observable, also it is a generalization, but the point of my bringing it up was to help slow down time again.

Within my hypothesized system still exists the slower and longer moments depending on what you are doing, something fun or something boring.

So can anyone give any good arguments? Because my 1 day of your life is 100% of your life and 2 days each day is 50% then 3 days 33.3% etc feels to me like it is pretty strong and self evident.

A lot of people have expressed that they agree with this idea too, because they feel what I am saying.

I suppose that the most truth is in the statement that our lives are what we make them, perception of time included.

[Blue_turnip]

It IS ridiculous, but it is also logical and observable, also it is a generalization, but the point of my bringing it up was to help slow down time again.

Within my hypothesized system still exists the slower and longer moments depending on what you are doing, something fun or something boring.

So can anyone give any good arguments? Because my 1 day of your life is 100% of your life and 2 days each day is 50% then 3 days 33.3% etc feels to me like it is pretty strong and self evident.

Because its flawed to say our perception of time is based on how much time we've already been around. There isn't any evidence to support this.

That whole percentages thing holds no weight. Suppose I drink 5 glasses of water a day each day (for the sake of simplicity lets pretend babies can consume that much). On the first day 5 glasses is 100% of my total water consumed but by the time I'm 10 its only .027%. Does that mean I need to drink 18250 glasses of water a day to match the water I had on the first day of my life? No, it doesn't.

Noone's explaining why we'd see time to go faster just because we've been around longer. You're pumping out a few valid percentages but they don't in any way support your argument.

And IMO nothing can be rediculous and logical at the same time, and it certainly isn't observable. I don't feel my days go any quicker now than when I was 10, even though according to you, I should perceive them to be a bit over half as long. The fact that I don't percieve them to be half as long is proof enough that your claim is false.

This is also combined with the fact, that as you grow older and learn more, you start to take things for granted. Then, you spend less time in awe and in wonder, and more time thinking of the next task. Your future becomes part of your present.

I never explained why I thought this was a rediculous assumption to make because I didn't think it was necessary. But because you want to know, I'll explain.

Firstly, you say it is a 'fact'. Which I disagree with. I believe as I've grown older I've started to appreciate things more and more as a result of a grater understanding of the world around me. Yet me feeling this way seems to oppose what you're saying.

Because the cause in your statement is false, the effect (that we spend les time in awe and more time thinking about our next tasks) can't occur.

And saying our future becomes part of our present just doesn't make sense. I understand the vibe you're trying to give off, but its ambiguous and certainly not a 'fact'. Future and present, by their very nature, are separate.

[kesalfun]

I do not disagree. I am digesting it. I like the way you explained. How old are you?