Fidel Castro resigns

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 26 Feb 2008 14:38

Very simplistic view of the world Dan.

What's the source of "Cuban deaths Fidel is responsible for?" Why is he responsible for those deaths? If he's killed that many people, and the overall life expectancy (that is the average age people live to before dying) is the same as the US, does that mean the Cuban health system is actually a lot better than Americas and if they just stopped killing people, they'd be the longest living people in the world?

Regarding your blame directed towards the Cuban people; If you're brainwashed into thinking somebody is great, is it your fault that you support them, or the fault of the person doing the brainwashing? Life in Cuba is undeniably a lot better now than it was under Batista; the US supported dictator that Fidel Castro replaced. If people have only known one really shit US supported dictator, and than a shit, but less shit, anti-US dictator, can they really be blamed for supporting the second dictator?

Regarding the US trade. Of course America can choose who it trades with, and you can be guaranteed that if the government lifted its trade embargo with Cuba, a large number of private companies would immediately start trading with Cuba. The US has every right to not trade with a country, but there are consequences of any action somebody takes, and if you make a choice to do or not to do something, even if it's legal, you're still responsible for the consequences.

In the case of sanctions against Cuba, they were introduced to try and create political change, but instead they've reinforced people's dislike for the US that started when they disposed of a democratically elected government to impose a dictator and that Castro has used to his own advantage, making him more popular and the US less popular. So they've failed in their purpose and they've had the effect of making a lot of people a lot poorer than they necessarily would be. Regardless of what the Cuban government does, that's happening because of the US' policy.

Actually a lot of academics think that ending the sanctions and having as much trade with Cuba as possible would be the most effective way of turning the country into a liberal democracy. It's also important to note that trade is always good for both countries involved. Because the US has such a large economy the difference would be small, but certainly noticeable. I read recently that the current economic situation in the US could be the decisive factor in ending the embargo with Cuba.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 26 Feb 2008 17:57

Very simplistic view of the world Dan.

Thanks. I pride myself on my simplistic view of the world. If the world community followed my personal relationship code, we'd all be much, much better off. It is the complicating of foriegn relations that has put us in the mess we are in; that mess commonly being referred to as the "modern world". If governments ruled a country like an individual rules his life, as a common entity, as opposed to competing lobbies and bueracracies, we would have a much better world.

What's the source of "Cuban deaths Fidel is responsible for?"

R.J. Rummel, Professor of Political Science at the University of Hawaii. He includes drowning deaths of people fleeing Cuba. His low estimate is 35,000.

Why is he responsible for those deaths?

Uhm lol?

If he's killed that many people, and the overall life expectancy (that is the average age people live to before dying) is the same as the US, does that mean the Cuban health system is actually a lot better than Americas and if they just stopped killing people, they'd be the longest living people in the world?

Jeremy, what the fuck are you talking about health systems for? The man's regime is directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. You try to bog things down in semantics, to hide the fact that you said an evil son of a bitch is doing a "decent job". All because you like his health care system. Because of this, you and all of Castro's other defenders have blood on your hands too. Hope you feel good about yourself.

And no, the fact that he has a good health care system doesn't make up for the fact that he kills people and represses civil liberties, you fucking fascist.

Regarding your blame directed towards the Cuban people; If you're brainwashed into thinking somebody is great, is it your fault that you support them, or the fault of the person doing the brainwashing?

Again, Cuba is no Stalinist USSR. Let's look at what you said earlier:

Cuba is not an exceptionally authoritarian or militarised country, while there are certainly a lot of issues surrounding free speech, people could definitely be protesting, especially at a time like this, if they wanted to.

The Castro Juanta could easily be disposed of, like you said, at a time like this. Fact is, Cuban's, like most other Latin populaces, are lazy fuckers who just don't give a shit and are happy to have the government provide for them, even despite the constant food rationing, power outages, lack of access to hotels built solely for Western tourists- and instead of blaming it on their shitty dictator living lavishly on their taxes, they blame America because we're white and rich and better looking then them. That might come off as prejudiced, but I've visited eight countries south of Mexico and the people down there outside of the tourist traps just don't give a shit.

Life in Cuba is undeniably a lot better now than it was under Batista; the US supported dictator that Fidel Castro replaced. If people have only known one really shit US supported dictator, and than a shit, but less shit, anti-US dictator, can they really be blamed for supporting the second dictator?

I don't know how undeniable it is that life is better under Fidel rather than Batista, but again, this is all pontificating and semantics.

Also, make up your fucking mind Jeremy. Is Castro doing a good overall job, or is he just a shitty dictator? Don't pick and choose just because you admire his healthcare system. What good is a healthcare system if you're being shot into your own grave? What good is being healthy if you have block captains reporting everything you do to the government?

As far as whether or not they can be blamed for supporting Castro, well, I think the fact that hundreds of thousands fled to Florida shows that they know how shitty their situation is. So yes, they can be blamed.

In regards to the trade embargo's, I'd probably agree that they probably have increased Castro's ability to stay in power. This isn't dirt on my hands though. I've always said that America should do business with whoever can benefit us, regardless of how shitty they treat their people. The American government should be watching out solely for the American people. Caring about other countries populace's is how hegemony and patriarchy begins. Caring sucks.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 26 Feb 2008 18:13

These people that Fidel Castro is responsible for their deaths; How did they die? Were they executed by the government/military? Did they die of starvation? Did they die of a preventable disease? How many of them drowned? Do you agree that Castro is "directly responsible" for the deaths of people who choose to try and swim over 100 km and drown in the process? Would those people have died because of something Castro is "directly responsible" for if they had have chosen to stay in Cuba?

Also you didn't really provide a source. A source needs to include the place where the information was published so that the person asking for the source can look it up themselves.

I talked about health care systems because despite your claim that Fidel Castro is "directly responsible" for the deaths of up to 140,000 people, people still live just as long in Cuba as in the USA. Are all the people Fidel Casto kills old people? Why doesn't that figure impact on the average age people die of in Cuba?

As I've stated before, I'm not a supporter of Castro at all. At the same time, he's clearly done a lot of positive things. It's not a case that everything he did was bad, or everything he did was good. He did some bad stuff and some good stuff. The same can be said of almost everybody. I think the bad outweighs the good, but I'm not going to pretend that nothing that's happened in Cuba for the last 50 years as been positive, because that's clearly not the case.

You say that the American government should be watching out "solely for the American People." How is the trade embargo in the best interests of the American people? Allowing Americans to trade with Cuba is clearly in the best interests of the American people and has no negative impacts on the American people at all. The trade embargo is entirely there because the government cares about the Cuban people and thought that it would help the Cuban people. It's clear that they're wrong, and the trade embargo is never going to have the desired effect. It would be best for both the Cuban people and the American people if the embargo ended.

Nobody has suggested that it's "dirt on your hands." Nobody thinks that US Federal policy for the last 50 years has ever been influenced by your views. Holding a countries government responsible for something is not the same as holding every single citizen of that country responsible.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 19 Apr 2008 00:43

Seems like Raul is "doing a great job" right now. I'd still wait to see how far this development is going to lead before nominating him a saint; Cuba still isn't a very democratic country.