Self Serving

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Do you self serve in a circle?

yes
66
47%
no
75
53%
 
Total votes: 141

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HackyLuvBug
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Post by HackyLuvBug » 19 Aug 2003 10:40

ok

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QuantumBalance
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Post by QuantumBalance » 19 Aug 2003 10:40

ok

edit: ...and gradually sam colclough merges discussion with the kicking circle

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Rob
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Post by Rob » 19 Aug 2003 16:35

Okay I've come back to this post a few times, wasting my time each time to see nothing but several word posts. The 2 offenders may find themselves part of the "temporarily suspended group" for 1 week should this continue.


I'm in a very moderatory mood today.
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Post by Guest » 19 Aug 2003 21:57

Panda Licker wrote:i can kick the bat 10-15 times. Does that mean i should stop shredding completely until i can reach 100, or can i just gradually work on it while i shred?
Dude, that sounds like it hurts -- you should try kicking a *bag* around. They'll fly much truer and won't give you splinters ;)

If you can't kick it more than 15 times, then personally, I would suggest that you spend a lot more time kicking than shredding. I wouldn't say you should stop shredding, but in my opinion, you should be able to kick it for as long as you want while being completely in control of your kicks (using and alternating both legs and all the basic surfaces -- inside kick, outside kick, toe, knee and not repeating any of them) before you even really attempt to start stalling the bag.

I personally guarantee (or your money back), that if you try to do 50 consecutive kicks in this manner every time you play for the next (pulling a number out of the air) four months that you will be way more solid and confident in your shred.

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FootbagginBum
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Post by FootbagginBum » 21 Aug 2003 00:05

Learn to kick a lot


I would like to say in the beginning that I wish there was no self serves anytime, I hate them whenever I see them, especially when I do it.


But here's my piece that seems to have been let out.

People (including myself, a lot) say that if you practice and get used to self serving you will get better and the circles work better. It not only disturbs the turn sturucture and equality AND competition element ( man no one mentioned this, I'm gonna write more on it in a sec) of freestyle circles, but it breaks the focus, which keeps you from reaching your full potential.


Now heres the problem, at the ROOT of the argument:

Common knowledge (to us): The majority of people that play with a little round ball structure filled with beads or sand with their feet play a game called hackysack, in which the point is keeping the hack alive and everyone kicking it, because its a relaxed, cool fun hobby.

Now, up until the last few years of the internet age sinking in and really blossuming, most people learned by transending the world of hacky sack by playing a lot of hack and stumbling on a good player or a good website (now I think its common for people to just start off the net without playing hack)

Meaning: most people that play, sad as it is, do it casually, and don't practice (no matter what I try to do about it) No practice = less consistancy, which is very similar and related to a lack of skill at the sport. This casualness about it is a result in the need and acceptance of selfserves.

None of the people I learned from or currently play with here in Vegas (since I have started I have played "freestlye footbag" with over 25 different locals) have been able to consistantly do more than 5 contacts 3 out of 4 trys. ( I of course can, or I wouldn't be mentioning it) They don't try hard enough because they don't really care about being good at the sport. (until recently, soon I may make an exception for MJK and Mega x, as their presence on here would show they care a little more that the other large number of people I play with)

So for it to be fun for them, they need to self serve, and I occasionally will enforce the rule and watch time after time as certain players drop on there first or second trick and don't get offered a courtesy pass(people here don't do that to well yet either), or drop it on the courtesy too. It becomes no fun for ME watching them not hitting any tricks (they all are of course to good to occasionally start with 1 adds to hit at least SOMETHING) and if I stand in the circle, and every one else is taking 3 or even 4 trys and I drop early on, even if its my 4th trick, I'm gonna self serve, cause 80% of the time (in regular Vegas circles) I know I'm not gonna get a rebate and am gonna have to wait forever when chances are given one more go I'll do better than that.


For people such as Allan and Kenny (used just because of there easily reference no-self-serve beliefs ) try not to get worked up about it. We view it as a sport, still possessing all the rich and gooey goodness of hacky sack but with the competitive/growth aspect, and we can try to shape it so everyone (including the public, and media) feels the same by encouraging such rules, but being dominant about it isn't gonna get us anywhere. Maybe when it hits the olymipcs, but not yet. The only reason I think I have the clarity to see things differently and point this out to two more experianced gentleman is because of my quick transendance into loving the sport and growing up in such a haven to see these things. I mean no disrespect in trying to teach you something.

I wish we were all guiltless and could kick 1000 and could just not self serve, but it isn't so yet, so we're going to have to adapt (as you already do in action although not voice Allan) and live with it for now if the situation deams it necessary.


I would like to say that I gained a lot of respect for both Allan and Jeremy in that (although a little more for Allan for not letting it get to him, although I've always respected Alan so much anyway, as may be noticible by the cheers I usually post when Allan has posted since he "left" the forum. Got a news letter we can sign up for Dizzy?)

Bum
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MJK
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Post by MJK » 21 Aug 2003 11:17

Bum said:
bla bla bla
I think it's funny that at least %40 of the time, you're the first one to self serve. What kind of crack are you smoking? Oh, and since I'm mildly irritated, I'll tell you that your grammar sucked. :cry:

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jon
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Post by jon » 21 Aug 2003 13:01

Anonymous wrote:
jon wrote:The motion of kicking a bag and delaying it are very different and one need not being good at one to also be good at the other.
I'm not sure if this could be less true.

Maybe when you've been to a tournament and know more about the game and the community than what you read on this forum then you'll also know that any shredder worth their salt can easily kick it 100 + times.

If you put more time into skooling kicks, you'd get better at shredding. Guaranteed.
Bows down to the high and mighty footbag expert that didnt bother to post under their real name. Maybe for you kicking and stalling are the same but for me there is a real difference. I guess I am not worth my salt.
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MegaFighter_X
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Post by MegaFighter_X » 21 Aug 2003 13:03

Well... I right now feel kinda indifferent about self serving.. to a degree... If the person self serves, and was doing a decent run, I don't mind too much because the person is entertaining. When the person does nothing but drop it X times, it pisses me off and I want to kill them for doing it. It really depends on the circle, how casual it is, and even the music... <shrugs> I try not to self serve too bad... I really do... But the self serving bug bites us every now and again...



Yes... I'm tired...
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MJK
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Post by MJK » 21 Aug 2003 19:24

Quite frankly John, you're a self-serve Nazi. You and Shawn. Sorry. :) As far as the kicking issue....

Kicking a bag helps you understand it's physics, and the physics of footbag itself. Learning to kick before learning to freestyle, IMO, is like learning to rollerblade through obstacle courses before learning to rollerblade. You have to build the foundation first. I schooled kicks to death pre-freestyle, and I can kick with all my surfaces. My kick record, in fact, is 1059, although it was entirely random that I ever kicked that, since I don't kick for long periods except to warm up when I'm sore sometimes.

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Johnny
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Post by Johnny » 22 Aug 2003 10:43

MJK wrote:Learning to kick before learning to freestyle, IMO, is like learning to rollerblade through obstacle courses before learning to rollerblade.
I think you have that backwards (accident I take it) so I'll rearrange that.
:arrow: Learning to freestyle before learning to kick, is like learning to rollerblade through obstacle courses before learning to rollerblade.

Although I like this learning to run before learning to walk analogy myself. :roll:
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jon
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Post by jon » 22 Aug 2003 11:47

I would kicking to freestyle is like learning to jump before you learn to walk. Cause running its an exaggerated walk but a stall is not an exaggerated kick.
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FootbagginBum
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Post by FootbagginBum » 22 Aug 2003 12:49

wow, Mega brought up a great point. Music.

I'm sorry, if a footbag song comes on (134,5, or 6 bpm) I'll prolly end up self serving too much. Its because I thrive on it, and it doesn't make a difference to other people whether there is a beat or not.

Do you (eveyone) think that is right? If a perfect shred song comes on and I'm the only one who will truly take advantage of it, am I allowed to self serve to get the songs benefit?
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Iain
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Post by Iain » 22 Aug 2003 13:12

well what if the other people in the circle want to thrive on it? Isn't that being a bit selfish?
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Post by Guest » 22 Aug 2003 13:48

jon wrote: Bows down to the high and mighty footbag expert that didnt bother to post under their real name.
This whole forum is completely anonymous. There are people signed up with 3 user names and they post under all of them just to fuck with people. What difference does it make if I sign my "real name"? Your just defensive because you know I'm right.
jon wrote:Maybe for you kicking and stalling are the same but for me there is a real difference. I guess I am not worth my salt.
I never said kicking and stalling are the same thing. Of course there's a difference. But trying to learn to stall before you are proficient at kicking is like trying to write a sentence when you don't know the alphabet.

If you can't kick it 100 times, then you aren't worth your salt in a shred circle. I'd guess that you can't do more than 5 contacts with any kind of consistency. Can you hit hit more than 5 guiltless (even tiltless?) contacts with any kind of consistency? How about 10? If you can hit 10 guiltess contacts whenever you want, I'll shut up. If you can't, you shut up.

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jon
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Post by jon » 22 Aug 2003 14:24

yes i can hit 5 guiltless contacts no problem (but after like the 3rd or fourth contact i always go for 4 add moves and eventually drop lol) and I can go titleless no problem
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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy » 23 Aug 2003 00:02

Today we were kicking and the newest, youngest member of our circle after a self serve or two hit a a huge run (for his level anyway). I mean sure, it had plenty of toe stalls and stuff in it and I'm sure I could come pretty close to repeating the whole run first attempt, every attempt (the toe set spinning toe would cause me problems :wink: ) but to see his progress and improvement since he started kicking with us was amazing. I am so glad he did pick the bag up after dropping it and keep going. I guess one of the things aboutour circles too, is that there is such a range of levels - there are guys you can hit 25-30 guiltless if they want, and there are guys that struggle to link 3 moves together. Generally I encourage the new players to keep trying to hit something they're working on and I really hope they keep playing the sport, so I don't want them to be in a circle where they hit two moves drop it, pass to someone who hits 25 who passes to someone who hits 16 who passes to someone who hits 21 and then it goes back to the new player, who again only hits two moves. Also I want to see the other players it good things. I like watching them play probably just as much as I like playing (so long as they don't play below their ability). I learnt to play with nobody else to play with, and now I try to take every opportunity to play and watch other people.

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FootbagginBum
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Post by FootbagginBum » 23 Aug 2003 09:56

that very purpose is prolly 40% of the reason I let my club self serve (as apposed to constantly objecting)

But Mega did like 12-13 contacts the other day and if he keeps it up then there will be only one other regular member who consistantly drops. Then maybe we can go ssless.
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max
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Post by max » 23 Aug 2003 11:33

Yes, I think that the general consensus is:

"I selve serve but if I could consistently hit a 20+ contact string, I wouldn't, there'd be no need to.

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Post by MegaFighter_X » 23 Aug 2003 17:20

I agree with max there, to a point. If I could constantly get a 7 contact run, I don't think I'd self serve as much. I think part of my self serving is out of frustration of wanting to do something I got in my head, but droping on something easy. I'm really trying to curb my habit.. I really am. Also, I think some of the self serviness I do have is because of shreds with bum at night. 2 person shred = more time with bag, either with or without self serving. Unfortunately, that mentality carrys over into the saturday shred sessions (which didn't happen today... :( ). But as I get better and start having longer strings, I think I'll start dropping the habit. That would be my ideal situation... sorta...
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Allan
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Post by Allan » 31 Aug 2003 21:25

I had forgotten about the original thread on this from way back so when it was brought up that we had in fact talked about all this before, I went back and read that original thread.

I though this was interesting coming from the person who started this thread and has been arguing so feircly for people's right to self serve:
Jeremy wrote:Yeah, I'm against self serving, although since I've been playing for about two years now and got my first chance to shred in a circle about a month ago, I've been a bit of a self server.
I'm *really* not trying to pick on you Jeremy, but WTF?

:D
-A

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