Fahrenheit 9/11

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 29 Jun 2004 21:22

I thinkthe real question here is whether Michael Moore actually feels/believes what his movie portrays . . . I know he made the movie to "open peoples eyes," but really. do you think some of the over the top stuff was just to make a little more money in the end???

Does the movie represent his true beliefs?

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 29 Jun 2004 21:24

That's a really good question Jer.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 29 Jun 2004 22:10

No offense was intended in bastardizing your post, Tsiangkun. I thought it provided some comedic relief. And some people complained about Moore's cutting out their full statements.

I'm sure my posts could be cut and pasted to make something crazy.

I don't know if the fact that a liberal movie may be number #1 proves that the media isn't left tilted.

I have some words about the I.C.C. but I am trying hard to stay on topic
about Moore and the movie.

-n

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 29 Jun 2004 22:26

I think Moore would be good actor for the part of a hostage kneeling before a group of hooded kidnappers.

He would grovel good for the camera:
"Wait!, wait! I'm Michael Moore, I agree with you guys! We're on the same side! "

Then they would saw his head off.

-n

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 29 Jun 2004 23:24

argh.

Michael Moore is definitly not on the same side as people who cut of the heads of hostages. That's such an ignorant comment. I think it's really imporant that you realise that on the issue of "the war on terrorism" and the related issues there are not two sides - it's not simply a case of terrorism vs anti terrorism. If you are against the current anti terrorism (bush regime) movement, it does not mean you support terrorism.

For example. I am completely opposed to terrorism. I do not support it. However I also am completely against the war mongering of Bush and co. If I were caught by terrorists I would not tell them I'm on the same side as them. The majority of terrorists in the middle east are religious fanatics. Despite the fact that we are both opposed to Bush and US imperialism - the terrorists and I have completely different morals and ideals - we are opposing Bush for completely different reasons - we have very little common ground.

I believe the same can be said of Moore, and you only need to read his books or watch his movies to be able to tell this for yourself.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 30 Jun 2004 06:58

Dr_inferno wrote:...The reason I dislike Bush as our president is because the day of 9/11 he ordered more bombs be dropped on Kosovo than any other day...

Wait, wait... since when are you an american, and since when is Bush your president.

Wrong country Jarrett.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 30 Jun 2004 07:53

The majority of terrorists in the middle east are religious fanatics.

Close, but I think they are impressionably oppressed people who will do anything to bring about change in the name of religion.

Remember Waco, TX? Impressionable people follow a mad man for years only to kill themselves in a massive attempt to reach a space ship behind a comet. Please!!!!!!!!!

The same is true of any extremist terrorists group including the KKK. In the south the KKK are really a bunch of ignorant ass white trash, with little to know knowledge of life outside their sheltered town. I have several members of my own family which I am NOT PROUD to say are in the Klan. Both of which have less than 9 years education between the 2 of them. They both read and write on a 4th grade level. Yet they hide behind their religion as their saving grace.

So as a comparison I would not say terrorists are fanatics, because if they were they would be witnessing and sharing the love of their God rather than "Killing in the name of".

420FootBager · Post by **420FootBager** » 30 Jun 2004 10:40

sPinko-Mania well I must compliment your debating skills and it looks like you got me on a few of the specifics .

However as I said I feel Kerry is far enough to the left for me to considare him a socialist I feel many of his ideals are socalist. BUT as I said in the first place that is in my OPINION..... your post was not neccesary....

I do give you credit on the U.N. thing it seems as though my father misled me in a earlier discussion.

And yes I also feel that many things about Canada are or at least border on socialist. Such as SOCIALIZED medicine program.......

good job though sPinko-Mania... no bad feelings on you...

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Jun 2004 10:46

yeah I agree to some extent with Damon, except I pretty much think anyone who believes in a physical god is a fanatic

Also what's wrong with being a socialist? Why is that a negative thing? I think a few people on this board may be insulted if with those implications...

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 30 Jun 2004 12:08

I'm a socialist. I support spending tax dollars on programs such as heathcare, daycare, rehabilitation centers, public roads, unemployment safety nets, and education.

In america, socialist has been made synonymous with totalitarian facist regimes, which is sad. Most american's will never read a philosophical text, but will rage with God on their side against the evil ideas they don't even pretend to understand.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 30 Jun 2004 12:40

We have a creeping socialism that expands ever larger as the government expands.

We are not a totally socialist nation, if that is even possible.

Our country will probably fragment into a Balkans-type (racial/religious) conflict before a socialist takeover(for lack of a better term) occurs anyway.

------------------------------
.
Did any of you just lose your unemployment benefits ?

If so, you can thank John Kerry. The extension only needed ONE more vote to pass. Kerry was to busy to show up and vote.

Bush probably would have signed if it crossed his desk.

Moore should make "documentary" of all the things Kerry was doing while
he was missing Senate votes.

What kind of president would Kerry make, if he didn't show up for work 80-90% of the time?

-n

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 30 Jun 2004 12:51

HighDemonslayer wrote:What kind of president would Kerry make, if he didn't show up for work 80-90% of the time?

This just made me laugh... all that footage of Bush on vacation!

But regardless, haha... I don't know anything really about Kerry, but he seems to be *almost* as much of a dimwit as Bush. Also, you can't imply that Bush would "probably" do something, if he had the chance. And I think it would be just as good for Moore to make a documentary about Kerry. I'm glad you're finally starting to support Moore!

It's amazing that all it takes is a stab for the other "side" and you're willing to support someone who you accuse of being stupid and ignorant (not your exact words). Nice way to jump fence!

420FootBager · Post by **420FootBager** » 30 Jun 2004 15:16

Can we all agree at least that both candidates would make horrible presidents (yes I do not like bush).....

Both have such screwed up ideas that either way our nation seems to be in trouble.

I am and have been since age 11 a Libertarian. I believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Follow the constitution and don't hurt anyone or infringe upon anyone else’s rights. Other then that do what you please, get married to whom ever you want, do whatever drugs you want, just don't mess with anybody else or endanger anyone else.

I disagree with socialism why should I, a tax payer, have to support others that are to lazy to work. Welfare is one thing, disability is acceptable but if you are simply to lazy to work, my tax dollars should not go to take care of your lazy behind.....

I am not pointing this towards anyone so don't get offended....

Smoke 2 Jz

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 30 Jun 2004 16:15

420FootBager wrote:sPinko-Mania well I must compliment your debating skills and it looks like you got me on a few of the specifics .
no bad feelings on you...

Thanks, and ditto on that last bit man

Can we all agree at least that both candidates would make horrible presidents (yes I do not like bush).....

YES. I think I would probably vote Nader, except he has certain horrible policies, I think a third party is just sorely needed. If I was in a state with a substantial enough swing vote I'd have to vote Kerry though, just because he's not Bush.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 30 Jun 2004 21:53

how about wesley clark for republican president? That will solve all our problems

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Jun 2004 23:00

420FootBager wrote:I disagree with socialism why should I, a tax payer, have to support others that are to lazy to work. Welfare is one thing, disability is acceptable but if you are simply to lazy to work, my tax dollars should not go to take care of your lazy behind.....

It's interesting you say that because the US has one of the lowest tax rates in the developed world (if not the lowest, I don't know) - the US also has the one of the lowest life expectancies in the developed world and lowest rates of litracy. Most people think this is because the public education and public health systems are very underfunded. Low education is also usually connected with higher crime rates, which means more tax money having to be put into the prison system, and tax payers becoming victims of crime.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 01 Jul 2004 07:31

That's a good point Jeremy. But unfortuantely the way taxes are structured, the more money you make the more eligible you are for cuts, benefits, incentives, shelters, and loop holes. This means that raising taxes would hurt the poor who out number the rich and pay the most taxes.

So while our eductation goes up, and health care reform makes being healthy the norm, you still have poor people. So in essence you just created more intelligent, healthy, pissed off criminals. Making it more difficult for the police to bring them in, forcing more money to go toward the prison system and policing to catch these super criminals.

Good job

!

Not that this would happen at all. I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Jul 2004 08:17

Or
The people would read the works of Marxs and Engles, rise up and over throw the government, take control of their lives and build a utopian paradise, showing the world that communism works and creating a flow on that results in the whole world seeing Red and the beginning of a long lasting world peace!

420FootBager · Post by **420FootBager** » 01 Jul 2004 08:36

or the socialist government that would inevatibly hold to much power would eventually squash there utopia....

mmmm fruittopia......

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 01 Jul 2004 08:45

Brilliant!

Or the idea of communism could spark fear into the hearts of those extremists Americans discussed earlier (about 20 - 40% of the nation not all of them extremists, but quite a few from that percentile). Causing a revolution against the now communist government creating another war between the states ending in self-destruction of American.

Meanwhile - Sadam escapes prison to join the revolt, bringing along with him weapons of mass destruction (some over ranged missles, and rusty centrifuge parts) to end the reign of fear plaguing the nation (because Sadam is actually still president of Iraq, and sore about the whole war misunderstanding).

Meanwhile still - Osama surfaces calling on all muslims extremists to gather their belongings to move to the new breeding grounds over sees. Causing jealousy in Saudi Arabia and Iran for not thinking of it first. Causing them to gather their belongings and move as well.

Even more meanwhile - The president sees this migration via satelite and attempts to move the entire feuding country to Saudi arabia and Iran while no one is looking in a joint effort with Russia to take over the oil fields and claim world domination.

Even still - North Korea is pissed they have been abandoned by the United States and launches a full scale nuclear war on the now training ground for extremists who just entered the United States, causing a backlash of terror on terror violance, resulting in the end of the world.

Yeah I can see that.