Stitching Experimentation

Dat · Post by **Dat** » 01 Oct 2006 17:07

I've been thinking about what variables make a good bag, namely fabric thickness, stitching depth, and amount of gather. I havent' tried different patterns yet so I have no stance on that variable. I'm just going to make soccer/football pattern bags from now on, so this post ignores other color patterns.

So far from common sense I've noticed hex thickness is more important in break-in and playability. That's the material that does most of the stretching. Also, pent thickness is more important for durability, since that's where holes usually form.

I haven't liked any 8-stitch 32s, cause those tend to be a bit rolly. Same goes for 12s. I think 6-stitch 32s are better because the little pockets made by the panel fringes help keep the filler from sliding around too much. The pockets are too big on 12s and the pockets on 8-stitch 32s aren't restrictive enough, in addition to their harder seams. I've never played or made a 4-stitch 32.

I dont' have any conclusions yet on stitching depth and gather yet. I still need to experiment with those some more. These are the combinations I plan on trying and documenting:

thick/thin pents - thin hexes - 2mm/3mm deep stitches - full gather (fabric fully folded together) vs some lesser amount

= 8 different combinations

This wasn't really a post to start a debate. It was more food for thought. Feel free to post your conclusions though.

bluntobj3ct · Post by **bluntobj3ct** » 02 Oct 2006 09:48

ive probly beaten to death the fact that i've been expermenting since bag 1. every single bag ive made has been different from the last one, save the last 3 bags

. i had finally found a pattern and stitch that i really loved. the playability is fantastic, aesthetically i suppose they arent what most people look for in a bag... but i could care less! im actually in the process of making my first 6/8 (holes in pents/hexes) in quite awhile, jsut because ive been doing something quite differently as long as i can remember

think 5/7!
think 7/9! dont restrict yourself in ANY way as long as the panels stick together and the fill doesnt fall out!

there are an INFINITE number of ways to make a bag, everyone's just fixated on a way that has generally worked as of late. size makes a big difference. but everything ive expermented with is pretty hard to list out, theres just too much! hole placement, spacing of stitching, number of holes...

in response to your observation that pents usually get the holes...

i dont believe that pentagons themselves have any sort of predispositions for getting holey! lets look at this scientifically.... the surface area of most peoples bags puts a much greater emphasis on pents. this is an aesthetic trend for the most part, i believe... theres more pent hitting the ground than hex, there are bigger pockets for lead to fall into on the pents... thus itll get holes the most quickly. hexes and pents definately stretch at different levels, but this is also drastically dependent on your stitching. try making a single color bag with the outward AND inward surface area of the pents and hexes the exact same. i can guarantee you the pents wont have any kind of disposition to get holes...

performance is also highly affected by proportions of filler that are guided into each pocket that a panel forms. gather influences where filler will flow when the bag hits your foot/the ground. flange on the inside will guide different consistencies of filler to different areas, depth of stiching will make more or less of a defined pocket for filler to fall into... basically its endless. there IS a balance somewhere, ive taken everything i can think of into account (and ive left out much of the considerations in this post, im sure) when ive created my bags, every one has its own personality. the thickness of fabric is a whole other ballgame. ok im tired of typing ill be back

Post by **Zac Miley** » 02 Oct 2006 13:43

bluntobj3ct wrote: i dont believe that pentagons themselves have any sort of predispositions for getting holey! lets look at this scientifically.... the surface area of most peoples bags puts a much greater emphasis on pents. this is an aesthetic trend for the most part, i believe... theres more pent hitting the ground than hex, there are bigger pockets for lead to fall into on the pents... thus itll get holes the most quickly. hexes and pents definately stretch at different levels, but this is also drastically dependent on your stitching. try making a single color bag with the outward AND inward surface area of the pents and hexes the exact same. i can guarantee you the pents wont have any kind of disposition to get holes...

Does the amount of stitches per side affect how sensitive the fabric is to getting holes?

funklovesfootbag · Post by **funklovesfootbag** » 02 Oct 2006 14:12

IMO, stitching closer to the edge is better because there's less material inside the bag. My bags have become much more playable since I started stitching closer to the edge. I stitch with a medium-low amount of gather. I want my material to be as soft as possible.

My main goal when stitching is to make a bag that's immediately shreddable; more gather will make a bag last longer but take longer to break in.
When making a bag for myself, I couldn't care less how long it lives, because I can just make another one. If you're charging someone $30-$35 for a bag though, it should obviously last a long time. Because I've only been stitching a few months, I have no idea how long my bags will last, but they seem to be holding strong with the standard 6 stitch, medium-low gather, and get choice pretty quickly. Weight/Filler is obviously another big variable that will change how long it takes for your bag to break in, and how playable it is immediately.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » 02 Oct 2006 17:37

Isilwar wrote:Does the amount of stitches per side affect how sensitive the fabric is to getting holes?

I think what affects "how sensitive the fabric is to getting holes" is the tension of the surface of the fabric on the bag. Less tension leads to less holes. I think that gathering a bag makes the seams stiffer, but reduces tension on the surface of the bag.

I don't think that increasing the number of stitches per side directly increases this tension, but it does reduce how much you can gather the bag.

funklovesfootbag wrote: My main goal when stitching is to make a bag that's immediately shreddable; more gather will make a bag last longer but take longer to break in.

Have you tried making a 4 hole pent bag?

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 02 Oct 2006 19:12

I keep almost plunging in and giving my opinions of all this but when I go to start I get overwhelmed with things I want to say.

Gahhhh I keep erasing what I write. I guess I will have to bow out of this discussion, stitching is just so internal and so very hard to explain.

Here are some basic things:
- hex material has more to do with bag feel than pent
- the ratio of stiffnesses (more so than thicknesses) plays a large role in appearance
- stitch depth vs gather vs first/last hole placement affect poofiness
- filler makes a huge difference and many common fillers actually suck

I could go on forever with my thoughts on how all the factors affect eachother but it's all way too complex and you really just have to experience it to understand it.

I like stitching alot.

funklovesfootbag · Post by **funklovesfootbag** » 02 Oct 2006 23:06

Toby wrote,

Have you tried making a 4 hole pent bag?

Nope, you think that makes it more shreddable immediately?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » 02 Oct 2006 23:59

Yeah. Overall, it gives a bag softer seams.

If you make one, don't gather the seams all the way. Probably don't even gather half the maximum. Also, I recommend cutting/stitching the flange at 60-70% of the stitch spacing.