Quantum/Slapping
Moderator: Muffinman
Quantums, what the fudge?
Seeking some advice on Quantum sets. K-Ho makes me want to do them, and everyone says if you can Pixie well, Quantums should flow. Cleared more Frantic sets than I have Quantums. What's the jump/transition like? Assuming it's like Atomic, where the plant foot does all the setting and you want to bring the setting leg down quickly as possible? Please, teach me your ways.
Merged with existing thread "Quantum/Slapping"; please check top post in Trick Tips forum before creating a new thread in future. Thanks. -Erik (not a mod)
Merged with existing thread "Quantum/Slapping"; please check top post in Trick Tips forum before creating a new thread in future. Thanks. -Erik (not a mod)
Live, Love, Footbag
Derek Littlefield
Derek Littlefield
Re: Quantums, what the fudge?
Fast legs - study Jindra. Flexible legs - study Jakob Wagner. Demigod with springs in legs - study Jay. There's a lot of different styles, maybe one of them is correct, maybe not.
First off, take anything I write with a bucket of salt. I can do Quantum very consistently in the middle of a string, and have done over 20 consecutive Toe Blurs, but I always feel shaky on my flipside and can't do harder tricks like Boulderbeater consistently.
The set either requires a certain way of doing which I haven't figured out yet, or it's simply nothing like Atomic. I can duck Atomic without ever training it, the set feels controlled and natural, Quantum does not.
While Quantum is probably the easiest set to get 'by accident' (anyone can get a Toe Blur within a couple tries), it is probably the hardest single dex set to master and to make look good.
The most important thing that I am sure is 100% correct is that whenever you try Quantum from a hand toss, always hit the same number from a hand toss on both sides.
When you feel confident, you're going to practice things like Toe Schmoe > Toe Blur > Repeat, and you really want to alternate the side of the first trick after a hand toss.
Not doing that was a mistake I made, and while I can do Quantum consistently on either side after other tricks, my flipside sucks after a hand toss.
Generally, you want to start practicing by attempting Toe Blurs, Toe Schmoes and Tripwalks from a hand toss on each side. Note that Tripwalks and Slapping sets are probably going to feel very differently from other standard Quantum tricks. Personally, I've fixed my Tripwalks to feel the same as Toe Blurs, and don't do Slapping at all, I don't find it fun and have injured myself a couple times attempting it.
After you're comfortable with single Quantum tricks, you want to do drills that will help you integrate the set into your normal shred. Drills such as:
- Open Mirage > Toe Blur > Repeat
- Open Illusion > Toe Blizzard > Repeat
- Tripwalk > Schmoe > Repeat
When you're more comfortable with the set and feel like the set earned its place in your everyday shred, you will want to step up your drills. For example:
- Toe Schmoe > Toe Blur > Repeat
- Toe Schmoe > Toe Blizzard > Repeat
- Consecutive Toe Blurs/Blizzards
- Blubberman
- Blizzardman
- Eggbeater > Toe Schmoe > Repeat
- Toe Schmoe > DSO > Repeat
- Tripwalk > Bubbabeater > Repeat
- Quantum Whirl > Wet Dream > Repeat
The styles of Quantums differ a lot among players, but there are two general types of Quantum set. Personally, I utilize both, first for big tricks, second for easier tricks within a combo that I want to hit as consistently as possible.
So the first one, let's call is Jindra style, is usually the cleaner one, but you need seriously fast legs for it to work. You can definitely learn the second style first and try the first one after you're more confident in your Quantum abilities.
This version of the set is basically an Alternative Pixie set (alternative means set from the other foot). You set the bag straight up a bring your leg from behind the bag in front of the bag while moving up. If your toes had chemtrails, it would draw an ellipse almost perpendicular to your body, just slightly skewed towards the setting leg. If you're fast enough, the bag will still be moving upwards while both of your legs are already on the ground. This set's height is dependent only on the speed of your legs.
Second style, used by Jakob Wagner and most other people, and generally everyone while doing Quantum Ducking, is a late, almost midtime kind of set. You generally want to set the bag, move your dexing leg up, but start the dex kind of late, while leaning back just slightly. This would make a picture of a candy cane in the air, straight up, make a circle and back down.
It is also how most people do Frantic set*, so this is probably going to be easier for you, the only downside is that you need really solid Mirages, and most people don't, not even some BAP players. I could talk how solid Mirages can be tested, improved and where they are useful, but that's a topic for another day, and most people would probably not take any advice that is so technical from a no name like me. But, if you have trouble with downtime components after this version of a Quantum set, shoot me a message and I'll give you a few pointers on how to get solid at Mirages/Illusions/Legovers etc.
You can also experiment with your toes, they can be flat, or point upwards on your setting leg, and on your dexing leg they should be flexed, but in a normal position. If you need to adjust your toes on your dexing leg because you're bumping into the bag in the air otherwise, chance are you're doing the set wrong.
Last point I want to make is a point that I make for any set there is. Setting the bag is only half of the set. The second, arguably more important part of any set is the recovery after the set. This is why you can't hit Pigbeater even when your sets are really high when you start doing Pixie, and you can't hit Bladerunners when you start doing Atomic even though you can duck Atomic. You're not used to the set, so a huge amount of time is going to be wasted on recovery, or the time between ending a set and beginning to do the downtime component.
As with any set, you'll shorten the recovery time slowly by practicing the set and incorporating it into your shred. When it's short enough, you can start doing Boulderbeaters and Quarks and whatnot.
That's all, if you've read all of this bullshit you deserve a cookie. Have fun with Quantum
*Only person I've seen do Frantic differently is Ken. There's nothing wrong with that style, just pointing it out so as to not cause any confusion. He does it like an uptime Eggbeater, which looks good, but deviates from my example.
First off, take anything I write with a bucket of salt. I can do Quantum very consistently in the middle of a string, and have done over 20 consecutive Toe Blurs, but I always feel shaky on my flipside and can't do harder tricks like Boulderbeater consistently.
The set either requires a certain way of doing which I haven't figured out yet, or it's simply nothing like Atomic. I can duck Atomic without ever training it, the set feels controlled and natural, Quantum does not.
While Quantum is probably the easiest set to get 'by accident' (anyone can get a Toe Blur within a couple tries), it is probably the hardest single dex set to master and to make look good.
The most important thing that I am sure is 100% correct is that whenever you try Quantum from a hand toss, always hit the same number from a hand toss on both sides.
When you feel confident, you're going to practice things like Toe Schmoe > Toe Blur > Repeat, and you really want to alternate the side of the first trick after a hand toss.
Not doing that was a mistake I made, and while I can do Quantum consistently on either side after other tricks, my flipside sucks after a hand toss.
Generally, you want to start practicing by attempting Toe Blurs, Toe Schmoes and Tripwalks from a hand toss on each side. Note that Tripwalks and Slapping sets are probably going to feel very differently from other standard Quantum tricks. Personally, I've fixed my Tripwalks to feel the same as Toe Blurs, and don't do Slapping at all, I don't find it fun and have injured myself a couple times attempting it.
After you're comfortable with single Quantum tricks, you want to do drills that will help you integrate the set into your normal shred. Drills such as:
- Open Mirage > Toe Blur > Repeat
- Open Illusion > Toe Blizzard > Repeat
- Tripwalk > Schmoe > Repeat
When you're more comfortable with the set and feel like the set earned its place in your everyday shred, you will want to step up your drills. For example:
- Toe Schmoe > Toe Blur > Repeat
- Toe Schmoe > Toe Blizzard > Repeat
- Consecutive Toe Blurs/Blizzards
- Blubberman
- Blizzardman
- Eggbeater > Toe Schmoe > Repeat
- Toe Schmoe > DSO > Repeat
- Tripwalk > Bubbabeater > Repeat
- Quantum Whirl > Wet Dream > Repeat
The styles of Quantums differ a lot among players, but there are two general types of Quantum set. Personally, I utilize both, first for big tricks, second for easier tricks within a combo that I want to hit as consistently as possible.
So the first one, let's call is Jindra style, is usually the cleaner one, but you need seriously fast legs for it to work. You can definitely learn the second style first and try the first one after you're more confident in your Quantum abilities.
This version of the set is basically an Alternative Pixie set (alternative means set from the other foot). You set the bag straight up a bring your leg from behind the bag in front of the bag while moving up. If your toes had chemtrails, it would draw an ellipse almost perpendicular to your body, just slightly skewed towards the setting leg. If you're fast enough, the bag will still be moving upwards while both of your legs are already on the ground. This set's height is dependent only on the speed of your legs.
Second style, used by Jakob Wagner and most other people, and generally everyone while doing Quantum Ducking, is a late, almost midtime kind of set. You generally want to set the bag, move your dexing leg up, but start the dex kind of late, while leaning back just slightly. This would make a picture of a candy cane in the air, straight up, make a circle and back down.
It is also how most people do Frantic set*, so this is probably going to be easier for you, the only downside is that you need really solid Mirages, and most people don't, not even some BAP players. I could talk how solid Mirages can be tested, improved and where they are useful, but that's a topic for another day, and most people would probably not take any advice that is so technical from a no name like me. But, if you have trouble with downtime components after this version of a Quantum set, shoot me a message and I'll give you a few pointers on how to get solid at Mirages/Illusions/Legovers etc.
You can also experiment with your toes, they can be flat, or point upwards on your setting leg, and on your dexing leg they should be flexed, but in a normal position. If you need to adjust your toes on your dexing leg because you're bumping into the bag in the air otherwise, chance are you're doing the set wrong.
Last point I want to make is a point that I make for any set there is. Setting the bag is only half of the set. The second, arguably more important part of any set is the recovery after the set. This is why you can't hit Pigbeater even when your sets are really high when you start doing Pixie, and you can't hit Bladerunners when you start doing Atomic even though you can duck Atomic. You're not used to the set, so a huge amount of time is going to be wasted on recovery, or the time between ending a set and beginning to do the downtime component.
As with any set, you'll shorten the recovery time slowly by practicing the set and incorporating it into your shred. When it's short enough, you can start doing Boulderbeaters and Quarks and whatnot.
That's all, if you've read all of this bullshit you deserve a cookie. Have fun with Quantum
*Only person I've seen do Frantic differently is Ken. There's nothing wrong with that style, just pointing it out so as to not cause any confusion. He does it like an uptime Eggbeater, which looks good, but deviates from my example.
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.
Vojta
Vojta
- F[uns]tylin' Eclectic
- Post Master General
- Posts: 4092
- Joined: 05 Feb 2010 19:53
- Location: Drumore, PA
Re: Quantums, what the fudge?
Well, I've done Toe Blur x3, so take what I say with 7 buckets of salt. But I've also ducked it both sides. The best tip I can give for Quantums is do it like you're jumping a hurdle. Watch those Olympics track dudes jump a hurdle and you'll get what I mean.
Also, get that "bag foot" (foot that the bag starts on) back to the ground immediately.
Hope this helps.
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
Also, get that "bag foot" (foot that the bag starts on) back to the ground immediately.
Hope this helps.
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
Re: Quantums, what the fudge?
Vojta,
That was a very good post.
I find quantums to be as easy as atomics (even easier midstring), but I guess I'm weird. However, I can't explain how I do them, because they kinda happen naturally, without much thought. I'll be following this thread closely.
That was a very good post.
I find quantums to be as easy as atomics (even easier midstring), but I guess I'm weird. However, I can't explain how I do them, because they kinda happen naturally, without much thought. I'll be following this thread closely.
Re: Quantums, what the fudge?
Vojta, that was spectacular, you deserve the cookie. Jindra's style is somewhat what I strive for, the need for speed is real, though it would be lovely to be a demi-god. 'Tis good to know it's not like Atomic, may be the root of my issues. Not sure how you can get the set "by accident", maybe have cleared it twice on potentially a hundred attempts. Just gonna have to face it, you're a beast. Glad to have an excuse to stare at Jakob/Jindra for more than I already have. Fairly certain my Mirages are dandy, or even good. No names are my peeps. Thanks for the in-depth review, shall be re-reading a few times.
Live, Love, Footbag
Derek Littlefield
Derek Littlefield
Re: Quantums, what the fudge?
Quantum can be easier than Atomic, it's not that weird. It just requires more practice if you want to consistently set the bag really high.
Two people have hit Alpine Rubberman, Alpine Blubberman hasn't even been suggested. Or at least to my knowledge, could be wrong there.
Two people have hit Alpine Rubberman, Alpine Blubberman hasn't even been suggested. Or at least to my knowledge, could be wrong there.
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.
Vojta
Vojta
Re: Quantum/Slapping
I think I've seen at least three people do alpine rubberman? Johnny, Dave, and Anssi? In that order too I think?
- F[uns]tylin' Eclectic
- Post Master General
- Posts: 4092
- Joined: 05 Feb 2010 19:53
- Location: Drumore, PA
Re: Quantum/Slapping
Jay told me he hit it, too.
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk
Re: Quantum/Slapping
Great post!
I love to read your advice on Mirage!
I love to read your advice on Mirage!
Re: Quantum/Slapping
Solid MiragesAsmus wrote:Great post!
I love to read your advice on Mirage!
Firstly, by solid I don't mean consistent, although the two terms are somewhat related.
Solid downtime will help you with saving a tricks after a bad set, hitting huge tricks and generally feeling more 'decisive' while shuffling.
If you want to somewhat commit to it, find the biggest bag you have (up to 8 cm in diameter) and warm up with it every session.
If you want to fully commit to it, just play with that bag all the time.
Small, well-sewed bags are forgiving. If you catch the bag sub-optimally, you'll still get the stall. This makes people play with them, because they can get longer strings and harder tricks, but it develops weak and inaccurate dexes and stalls.
To stall a 7 cm show bag, you'll need laser accuracy and almost robotic dexes. It also makes you find the best position for your body to be in while doing these tricks, and after a month of training, some really hard tricks may become very easy suddenly.
EDIT: Try to stay on topic guys; or move to the Mirage thread here: http://modified.in/footbag/viewtopic.ph ... Ca%20href=
Thx
-Erik (not a mod)
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.
Vojta
Vojta