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Muffinman
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Comics

Post by Muffinman » 28 Feb 2006 18:06

Anybody else into some good comics?
I haven't followed any series or anything for years, since university (=no money). But I kind of can't stand those 30-page single issues anymore anyway, and need to collect TPBs. I still only buy books very rarely, but I follow a few of my favourite artists'/"peers'" works.

I just got my copy of Becky Cloonan's Demo TPB in the mail today. Man it's so good. I almost cried during two of the chapters. I'm not done yet, because I'm doing homework, but wow. Becky is the queen of comics. It's a really powerful book. The short summary on the back reads: "Twelve stories of young people standing at the crossroads, each faced with a life-altering decision in a world where merely living is hard enough."
You can check out Becky's other projects at http://www.estrigious.com/becky/ (though she doesn't have many drawings up there anymore.)

I also just ordered a handful of Sam Hiti's books yesterday (in celebration of a surprise paycheque (this is how we spell it in Canada)). When I was on that trip to Chicago earlier this year, my friend bought this indy book, End Times: Tiempos Finales (it's in English, though there is also quite a bit of Spanish, which is often 'subtitled'). It is flat-out the best comic I have ever read (probably). It's very minimalistic and gothic-esque. It's just impossible to say how inspiring a story it is.
This is a sample from his site store, though it hardly does justice to the story: http://www.samhiti.com/newstore/images/ ... olume1.gif There's a scene that passes over, like, 4-6 pages where there is no dialogue whatsoever. You know you're amazing at telling a story when you don't even need words.
Sam Hiti's site is www.samhiti.com

I am also anticipating the release of Mal's Scott Pilgrim and the Infinite Sadness (#3). Mal's style for this comic probably requires some getting used to -- it's very simple and "bad"-looking, but the story is really entertaining and funny when you get into it. It's quite different from his first book, Lost At Sea, which is moving on the same scale as Demo (but with more humour -- Demo is flat-out serious (by which I totally don't mean boring!)). It's basically silly nonsense and video-game humour in a real-life, sitcom kind of way. His drawings are much better in Lost At Sea, and you can get a general sense of his style, hopefully, from looking at his older drawings on his website, www.radiomaru.com .


That's all I've really read semi-recently, I think. I also got Kia Asamiya's addition to the Darkhorse Star Wars Manga series (for Episode 1), and his drawings, as always, are exceptional, but the storytelling is REALLY weak -- it's really clear that he should have stuck to the 4-book standard that was set by the previous illustrators of the "Original Trilogy" books; it's very rushed.

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Post by Pengu » 28 Feb 2006 18:23

Oh man, I hoard comics novels. There's few things I love more! If I had more money, I'd own so many more.

The best comic novel in my opinion is the DC comic classic, Watchmen by DC legends Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. One of the best stories ever with a complex plot and fantastic artwork. It's so revolutionary that it's even on an English course' reading list here at Queen's.

Alan Moore also did V for Vandetta which is coming to theatres SOON! I'm so stoked on all the fabulous comic to film remakes like Sin City. I just hope it's not another Daredevil... ewww...
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Post by Muffinman » 28 Feb 2006 18:48

I don't know, I don't really dig the art of Watchmen, so I never read it. It was actually a suggested reading in one of my courses too :) And I actually read Art Spiegelman's Maus as part of my first year English course. Another really well-written book was Neil Gaiman's Sandman -- again I couldn't stand the drawings though :(

Yeah, I'm excited for V for Vendetta, but...most comic movies suck and make people think that consequently comics suck.


Oh -- another good one is Mike Oeming's Powers; it's really good. I never read Astro City, but from what I've always gathered it's along the same sorta lines, only it follows the lives of two homocide detectives and murders involving "powers". It's really good, and there was a SUPER amazing plot twist in the last TPB and I NEEEEED #9!!!

Alex Ross is another of my favourite "artist"s, and his books Kingdom Come, Marvels, and Uncle Sam are really good. I also have all of his "tabloid-sized" stories, like, "Superman: Peace on Earth", "Batman: War on Crime", "JLA: something-something-something". Generally I can't stand DC, but Alex Ross has always been one of my favourites.

Ahh -- there are too many to mention. Batman only reminds me of Frank Miller's Dark Knight (I actually didn't like Sin City, though the movie was okay. And Alex Ross reminds me of DAVID MACK!! David Mack's Kabuki is pure visual poetry. It's so beautiful I can't even explain. I think I actually have a short of his from an anthology that I posted on my website for my girlfriend to read. Oh, no...it was over email, nevermind. But look him up!! He may also be doing Daredevil still (not in any way connected to the terrible movie...he makes Daredevil poetry).

Joe Madureira has always been one of my favourites, if not my favourite, and he is finally coming back after, like, 5 years in the video game industry (lots of failed concepts, Starcraft, and some MMORPG coming out soon) to do one of the Marvel "Ultimates" titles (Avengers?). I think that's supposed to premiere soon, and I am excited to see him draw again (maybe even monthly, as opposed to Battle Chasers which ended up being, like, quarterly...)

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Post by Pengu » 28 Feb 2006 19:25

Art Spielgman's Maus and Frank Miller's The Return of the Dark Knight is also way up there on ANY comic-lover's list. They are revolutionary and critically acclaimed for a reason. I think Frank Miller's Ronin could also be arguably in this category.

Mark Waid's Kingdom Come I really enjoyed as well although the artwork wasn't for me.

Personally though, I love political conspiracies so the storyline of Watchmen really appealed to me with it's alternate history. And I always liked the raw masculinity of the artwork by Dave Gibbons. Everyone looks like they've got issues you know?

Newer favourites have definitely been from Jhonen Vasquez with Invader Zim and Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Squee! I was so excited when he had a signing at free-comic day at the Silver Snail.

On the Japanese aspect of things, I like the classics by CLAMP like Tokyo Babylon and X. Sexy bishounen is where it's at ;) And the cheesy girly comics like Fushigi Yuugi and Marmalade boy because they remind me of my childhood even though the stupidity of the main female character always made me want to pull out my hair and yell at her. And definitely tonnes of Doraemon!

Oh oh! AND KENSHIN IS SOOOO HAWT!

Dammit! There's too much to name and too much to talk about. I have an essay to write about Minimalism. DAH! Bye!

Oh, I'm in the process of starting up a comic zine by the end of the summer here in Kingston, so if you ever have some time and can contribute to it, I would really appreciate it.
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Post by Muffinman » 28 Feb 2006 20:49

I would love to contribute. I need motivation (and or to be forced) to draw. It's funny how I refer to the illustrators and you refer to teh writers :p Mark Waid's Kingdom Come -- ha! :p

I used to be a big fan of Jhonen Vasquez. I have JTHM, Squee, and I Feel Sick (and watched Invader Zim, though I don't think it aired in Canada back then?) But then after I had a more happy outlook on life I looked back and realized how different I am now @_____@ It's still funny (SOMEBODY PUT SHIT IN MY PANTS!!), but the crappiness of his drawings really comes out when you appreciate the story less :p

Blade of the Immortal is hot. I'm probably missing a few of the last TPBs, but I have up to 13 -- GOOOOD stuff. Good, fucked-up (seriously...) samurai action. I also dig Oh My Goddess, and Gunsmith Cats (though less-so when I realized how bad Sonoda's anatomy is :( ) Lots of stuff that's really generic now. I guess I actually don't have too many mangas. Shirow's stuff is a must, and I've got most of it (GITS (and MMI), ORION (my fave!), Appleseed, Dominion... I never read Black Magic, so that should go back on my list...) I've got a Lodoss War trilogy... Hmm.

Oh... Ashley Wood is another favourite. The guy's a freaking machine!! www.ashleywood.com He is constantly publishing crap left, right, and centre -- seriously, like, thousands of projects every month!! I have a couple of his artbooks -- they kick ass. Definately check him though (though it sounds like we have totally different tastes...) He also did the official Metal Gear Solid book, which I want the TPB of (though from a couple issues I saw it's not really up to his typical standards...I guess he was probably restricted a lot (his style is pretty 'experimental', in a way and...it changes from every page, like David Mack). His main book is, like, "Popbot", which I have the first TPB of -- good, random, messed-up stuff :)

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Post by Pengu » 28 Feb 2006 21:18

Nausicaa was my first ever comic novel that I ever received. I have the whole series and I'm still obcessed over it. Beautiful artwork and fantastical story-telling.

I read a lot more Japanese comics than I did American comics growing up. Only in highschool did I really become interested and appreciate American comics for what they are.

I kinda like how crappy and inconsistent the drawings of Jhonen Vasquez is. It's cute.

As for Ashley Wood, I have seen some of his work at the comic shops and picked it up to look at, but never really thought about buying it because being a broke university student, I don't buy very many anymore. Damn I miss being young and not having to worry about rent and tuition and spending my money as I liked. I do like mecha though, so I will check him out when I get some funds.

Comics are also SO expensive these days... I have to chose between comics and magic cards and right now, magic wins. At least with magic, I'm never disappointed in a purchase. There's too many comics to wade through. Keeping up with what's supposedly good is so difficult. I too read mostly those of my peers and my friends where I can get copies for free or at cost.

Yeah, you and I have very different viewpoints on how we refer to comics and what we like. I think it's pretty funny. Give me battling robots and samurais and ninjas, and I'm always game.

You know what I have always wanted to happen? If someone would make a comic of the novel or illustrated version of "A Wrinkle in Time" by L'Engle, I'd be on it in a second.
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Post by Bagira » 28 Feb 2006 21:27

Holy crap!

I seriously didn't know that 'paper' comics were still being published.

When I saw the topic, I expected the standard Penny Arcade or Sexy Losers Internet comics to be discussed.

How old are you people? >_>

Hmm. On second thought, manga is considered comics. It still shocked me that non-manga comics are still published.

I'll make sure to check out one of the links that Erik left in first post. Especially the graphics-only gif comic.


On third thought, the closest thing I know of 'paper' comics being still published are the Order of the Stick (yes, I am one of those DnD players), which publish their comics in book form once or twice a year to raise money.
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Post by Muffinman » 28 Feb 2006 21:37

Poor Mikhail :(
Comics is a HUUUUGE fucking industry. It's awesome.

EDIT: How could I forget Mike Mignola!!! Okay, the Hellboy movie was kind of bad (another sad example of the bastardization of an AMAZING book!!), but Mike's style is one that has influenced, like, a huuuge portion of comic artists today. His stuff is amazing. I have all the Hellboy TPBs (except anything beyond The Third Wish (I read that one, but don't have it)) and this amazing $100 hardcover artbook -- so sexy. The Disney's Atlantis movie was based on his style (he did concept art -- also for movies like...Bram Stoker's Dracula I think? Either that or John Carpenter's Vampires... something along those lines...)

Hey, I think I've browsed the Naussica book... It's probably not the same thing though... I think mine was a script book for the anime? Or...what are they called... the you know... drawings panel for panel for the movie. I forget. Naussica (I always spell it wrong) is my favourite of Miyazaki's movies, though.

I don't know about there being too many. Sure there are tons of comics, but I just stopped by the comic shop this past week just to buy ANYTHING...and it's this HUUUGE store that is exclusively Winnipeg, but has tons of orders from the States (advertised in Wizard! (1 million+ back-issues!)...it has soo much stuff, and I couldn't find a single thing I wanted, browsing for 30 minutes :( There are lots of books I want, but man... these last couple I ordered were CHEAP! The Demo book (320 pages) was, like $24 Canadian after tax!!!!! The 4 Hiti books (a total of about 300 pages) cost me about the same!! And that's, like, with shipping and stuff! I guess indy comics are usually cheaper (and on crappy paper)...

Comics are the best!
To quote Becky Cloonan, "Life ain't nothin but comics and money!"

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Post by Bagira » 28 Feb 2006 22:16

There USED to be a small comics store near my high school.

I went there maybe 3-5 times. Reason I went there is because they, Nuetral Ground, and maybe the Compleat Strategist are the only places I know of where to find Dragon/Dungeon Magazine. A friend of mine would also always buy some comic from them too, but they were all the old type. Thin and oldishlooking with some RAREs under counter. Looked pretty much like the comics store in the Simpsons (TV show).

Plus, geek (computer-wise) culture appreciates the comics that make one laugh way more than the comics that tell a good story, thus the closest I've come to comics in the sense that you mention them are the types called 'graphic novels' of which one was pretty horrible and should burn in <insert Warhammer 40K C'tan deity>'s hell. It was a version of Brust's Jhereg. Bad artwork and a total misconception of the story killed it.

Oh, and the comics store near high school closed the year before I graduated. I guess they weren't making any money since no one except the RPer people in school (10-20 MAXIMUM out of a healthy 3.2K) ever visited it or noticed it. Maybe the Robotics team noticed it too since the hardware/electronics store was right next to it...
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Post by Muffinman » 28 Feb 2006 22:48

"Graphic novel" refers to any bound comic with a storyline -- all the comics I've been talking about are "graphic novel"s :p
It's totally a matter of appreciating a good story, good "art"work, or the combination of both, and of being exposed to books in a style and genre that appeals to you. For example, I could say that chocolate bars are gross. Maybe they all actually are in my opinion, but I can't really judge until I've tried a large selection of them. If I hate coconut, and all I'm exposed to are those fake coconut chocolate bars, then yeah, I'm gonna have a really negative, yet uninformed, view of chocolate bars in general.

Comics ("sequential art") is very under-rated and really badly stereotyped (just like hacki sacki) :(

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Post by james_dean » 01 Mar 2006 14:41

All sounds very interesting. I may check some of those out, it seems hte kind of thing I might enjoy. Thanks for the writeups :)
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Post by full nelson » 02 Mar 2006 00:38

I liked Watchmen a lot too. It was great.
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Post by Splint » 06 Mar 2006 02:31

I used to seriously collect comics. I worked in a comic store for almost 3 years in my teens. I stopped collecting shortly after I left there because comics were getting upwards of $3 a pop. Now they cost even more.

I pretty much go in for Graphic Novels and Trade Paperbacks now and again. Most recently (which is still a year or more ago) I finished the "Preacher" series. Ken S. had given me the first 3 in TPB as a wedding present and it took me a couple of years to finally read them. Then I got hooked and bought the rest.

Oh actually I finally read Maus I & II not too long ago.
I also really loved Astro City.

My favorites back in the day were Flash, Spiderman, and Silver Surfer.

Ken must not know this is here or he would be on it. He's still totally nuts about comics.
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Post by Guest_2 » 06 Mar 2006 18:37

Ah!!! I totally missed this thread! I <3 comics!

Maus I was good, my aunt got it for me and I haven't read the second one yet. The characters were uber creative and while I wasn't a major fan of his drawing ability, I dig the style in which it was done.

I'm not a major fan of the new comics coming out, I preferred the 90's style intensely more.

Cool comic story:
Friday night I was picked up by a guy who was dating a friend a friend of mine and is cousins with a buddy of mine. We were going to a surprise b-day party of said buddy. We stopped by the guy's place to kill time before going bowling [to kill time] before going to the surprise party. At guy's apartment I met his roomate playing X-Men Legends as we shook hands.

We discussed super heros and I saw his collection in the basement [complete with 40 yr old virgin styled unopened action figures ;-)]. Discussing rare collectables he mentions an original Spider-Man #1 stashed away 8O 8O 8O

Comics=cool


Has anyone else been reading the Marvel Essentials? It's a collective run of published comics in B&W that allows you to read 24 in a row. It's really cool and I've brushed up on my early X-history ;-). The original X-Men were really well done, despite the goofy uniforms

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Post by Zeke » 07 Mar 2006 11:00

I used to collect back in highschool but stopped when I started paying for college. Batman was my favorite, really liked Legends of the Dark Knight and all the graphic novels. Preacher was one of my favorite series, it had so many great characters!

Some of my favorite artists:
Alex Ross, Brian Stelfreeze, Bernie Wrightson, Brian Bolland, Tim Sale, Joe Quesada and Bart Sears.

Really HATED Rob Liefeld and anything he ever created. What a shitty artist. Learn some anatomy and perspective you fucking sub-monkey troll whore!!!!!! Oh, and I really hated how ALL his character designs were exactly the freakin same! Fuck! Ok, I digress...

Zeke = Fanboy
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Post by Muffinman » 07 Mar 2006 11:16

Yeah, Tim Sale is pretty good too. I always wanted Superman For All Seasons. And his Batman work is really good. Very Miller-esque.

Preacher is a another classic I couldn't read because of the illustrations. I think I read one of those Wizard short stories, or #0s, or something. The story seemed good...I dunno. I'm super biased. I'm all about the pretty drawings. I can't stand bad drawings, even if the story is amazing. I actually read Maus 2, and not the first one, though I have the "box set". I can't bring myself to read #1...it feels like such a chore. I looked Spiegelman's new book (about the Twin Towers, or whatever)...so bad. I'm sure the story is really moving, though.

I don't think there's really any need to make fun of Rob Liefeld any further. He's such a joke in the comics industry already :p I dunno, though...Quesada draws some funky stuff sometimes, but his anatomy is pretty fucked too. I have this Spiderman poster on my ceiling...and like...he has this muscle running between his bicep and tricep and right across where his elbow pit should be. It's, like, so silly. I have thre Spiderman posters on my ceiling in a row, actually, and they are all drawn wrong. The first is by Todd McFarlane with his silly non-existant, linear muscle masses; the second is by Mark Bagsley(?...kinda forget his name -- a pretty definative Spiderman drawer) -- he's basically one step up from Liefeld -- pretty similar style, really exaggerated proportions and stuff...everyone has the same face...; the the Quesada which has some really whacky inconsistancies, like...even from one leg to the other. It may be partly due to the colourist not knowing anatomy, but that one muscle I mentioned......

I'm a huge fanboy too, but really can't stand much of the mainstream books anymore. I would love to be able to read X-Men (and all the millions of sub series) every month, but I would never buy the issues, or even TPBs, just for the story. I collected Uncanny X-Men and X-Men for a couple years because of Joe Madureira and...who was it...either Carlos Pacheco or Salvador Laroca. I think Laroca was on Fantastic Four (which was suuuuper good) -- these two last guys are sooo good! They always team up with amazing colourists too!! Joe Mad is one of my alltime favourites.



Everybody should read Kabuki and Mack's Daredevil. I think he is working on it together with Quesada at the moment (though I'm not following it (until TPBs...), so I'm not certain. I know a few issues they shared drawing duties -- a good issue started out with a few pages of Quesada, and Mack progressively painting over his pencils until it developed completely into Mack's watercolours... that was cool (though the shiny superhero colouring on Quesada's Daredevil was really bad).

EDIT: Because I'm such a geek, I couldn't sleep one night, and started making a list of my comics and how much they cost (nevermind worth), because staring at the bookshelf in front of me I realized that even a single shelf of $20+ books must be, like, $1000! I figured that my TPBs are about $3000, and then very roughly I guessed another $1500 for all the old single issues (some of which I think have some sort of worth)...

Akiko 1: ~$20
Appleseed: $20.95, $25.95, $26.95, $26.95 = $100.80
Asterix: 8x$14.95 = $119.60
Battle Chasers 1: $9.50
Batman: Child of Dreams: $30.95
Blade of the Immortal: (1-13) 13x~$22.95 = $298.35
Bone 1: ~$20
Crimson 4: $24.95
Danger Girl, Odd Jobs: $22.95
Demo: ~$28
Dragonball: (33-34) 2x~$10 = $20
Ghost in the Shell: $37.95
Batman Stories Ever Told, The Greatest: 2x ~$62.66 = $125.32
Gunsmith Cats: $25.95, $20.95, $18.95 = $65.85
Hellboy: 5x~$25 = $125
Hellboy artbook: $100
Hobbit, The, by David Wenzel: ~$74.38
Johnny The Homicidal Maniac: ~$20
Kingdom Come: $20.95
Lone Wolf 2100 2: ~$18
Lost At Sea: ~$17
Marvels: $27.95
Maus boxset: ~$30
Nightmares and Fairytales: ~$20
Oh My Goddess: (1-3) 3x$20.95 = $62.85
Orion: $29.95
Patlabor: (1-2) $23.95, $21.50 = $45.45
Pokemon 1: $19.50
Popbot 1: $98.12
Powers: (1-5,6-8) 5x~$30, 2x~$20 = $190
Record of Lodoss War, Yoshihiko Ochi: 3x~$25 = $75
Romp: $9.10
Savage Dragon Team-ups: $31.75
Scott Pilgrim: (1-2) 2x~$17 = $34
Sencilla Fanta: ~$40
Sharknife 1: ~$17
Sin City (BB&B): $23
Slop: Analecta: ~$18
Squee: ~$20
Star Wars Manga: 14x$14.95 = $209.30
Tetsuwan Atom 49: $50
Tintin: 20x~$15 = $300
Uncle Sam: $15.50
Understanding Comics: $31.75
Witching Hour, The: $32.95
X-Men Visionnaries, Joe Madureira: $27.50

Alex Ross tabloid-sized:
Batman War on Crime: $15.50 (though, sells for $50?)
JLA Liberty and Justice: $15.50
JLA Secret Origins: $15.50
Shazam Power of Hope: $15.50
Superman Peace on Earth: $15.50

This was pretty exciting for me. I love organizing stuff :oops:
I was also just looking over Scott Pilgrim some more. It took a lot of getting used to to appreciate it, but I don't even think it's that good, looking back. I don't think I recommend it anymore, even if it did recieve many awards. I'm just a fan of Mal. Lost At Sea was really good, though!

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Post by Pengu » 08 Mar 2006 11:42

The Riddler. :P

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Holy fuck Erik. You and I need to get together sometime and lend each other our collections to read. I'd rather not think about how much mine's worth. It'd be too depressing and tempting to sell them all.
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Post by skoxn » 08 Mar 2006 12:33

i just yesterday bought "The walking dead" by Cross Cult Comics.

in america it´s published by Image. i guess, there exist now over 30 softcover comics in the usa.

here, they combined 6 comics to one hardcover with 160 pages. next book will be published in june!

well, i just started to read it, but i´m blown away!
in the first look, the story is quite simple. a man awakes after a crash in the hospital and finds out, that there aren´t any more "normal" persons. so he has to make his way through the "new" america.
the point of view is not on the zombies, the main actor is the focus.
illustrator is tony moore. i guess, he painted for dc before!

oh and i just started a series called "Priest".
it´s a korean manga (named manhwa). the difference is, that there is no backward reading like in the standard mangas.
that story is an interest mix of western and horror. an undead priest who fights in the name of a demon for the good! all in the western setting with cowboys, trains and horses!
i kinda like it ;)
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Post by Muffinman » 08 Mar 2006 14:25

All of my translated mangas are mirrored. I find myself always flipping through books backwards anyway, though. Like artbooks I look at backwards, and I skip novels backwards too :?

Peng: You should list some of your comics too!


My dad watered the plant in my room yesterday and spilled water all over one of my Alex Ross books without even telling me. So I found it soaked and the pages stuck together and he didn't even bother to tell me :cry: I am so anal about my comics and never let anyone read them in case they bend the pages or something... ¬________¬ My girlfriend was given a course on how to read them properly 8O

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Re: Comics

Post by nosuchthingasheroes00 » 10 Mar 2006 18:58

Erik Chan wrote: You can check out Becky's other projects at http://www.estrigious.com/becky/ (though she doesn't have many drawings up there anymore.)
you should check her out on deviantart. http://stabstabstab.deviantart.com/ *nod nod* she's a cool one. and i agree. demo was sooooo good.

i shall find her, kill her, then eat her brain to acquire her powers. yes. that is what i shall do.

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