Modified Book Club

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 07 Mar 2014 15:11

Just thought I'd let people know that I have an eBook of this months Invitation to a Beheading, if anybody is having trouble finding a copy. Let me know if you want me to email it to you.

Also I am into the final 100 pages of The Castle and hope to finish today. I've found the book very frustrating, which is deliberate by Kafka I think. The bureaucracy is so painful.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 08 Mar 2014 21:04

Ok so I finally finished The Castle. I'll put some spoilers in my review, so be careful :P

I didn't enjoy this much, as stated in the other topic, because so little happens and there is so much detail about the bureaucracy that probably served a purpose, but was painful to read. The characters were all terrible people too, where self-interest seemed to be the main theme, although I guess the extended end suggests that possibly one character (either Frieda or Pepi, depending on who you believe) was not lying and manipulating everybody around them. Also there seemed to be so much drama over relatively trivial issues. There was a good atmosphere, and at the beginning it felt like a bit like bleak Russian novel, but I think Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn are much more interesting. Also what was the deal with Frieda, who apparently was "in love" with 3 different men over what I believe was 5 days? I guess maybe I didn't get it. I did understand the deliberate mind numbingness of the bureaucracy, which made me feel reasonably frustrated on behalf of K. Wikipedia suggests it's either about salvation or about loneliness, but I didn't really take that from it.

Anyway like Dave, it's only the second Kafka I've read after Metamorphosis (which I really enjoyed), and I am glad I have read it. I wonder too whether the fact that it's an unfinished novel contributed to the style. Perhaps the finished edition would have been much tighter.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by dp » 10 Mar 2014 19:25

Was I the only one who found The Castle uproariously funny?

Examples:

(After the councilman in his bed has described Brunswick as exceedingly stupid) "Brunswick had already thought up something else, he’s actually quite quick, that’s one of the forms his stupidity takes."

and,

The assistants prevented this through their intrusive presence. Otherwise they weren’t demanding, they had settled down in a corner of the floor on two old skirts; their goal, which they often discussed with Frieda, was to avoid disturbing the surveyor and to take up as little room as possible, they made various attempts to bring that about, always to the accompaniment of whispers and giggles, by drawings in their arms and legs and huddling together, all one could see in their corner in the twilight was a large knot. Still, certain experiences in broad daylight had, alas, made it clear that they were attentive observers, they were constantly staring over a K., playing seemingly childish games, using their hands as telescopes and resorting to other such antics, or simply blinking at him while appearing to be engaged chiefly in tending their beards, which they set great store on and compared on countless occasions for length and thickness, letting Frieda be the judge.

I thought all the despicable characters, the painful bureaucracy, and the bizarre actions/decisions/reasoning capability of all the characters were, while "unbelievable", quite consistent in this world of Kafka's. In other words, I felt that the unbelievable situations that Kafka created had some sort of overall coherence to them which allowed me to not even bat an eyelash over them. I've read most of Kafka's short stories and also Amerika and The Trial so I felt I knew what I was getting into with this one. I wish that I could read this book without knowing what I do about Kafka. Although I didn't explicitly know that he would never actually reach the Castle, I felt it was a pretty safe assumption. If I could have read this book with the expectation that he certainly would have reached the Castle I think I would have found it even funnier and more confounding than I did.

I've got the next book waiting for me on hold at the library.
Danny P.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 10 Mar 2014 19:33

I did find the assistants funny, especially the scene in the Mayor's office with all the papers in the wardrobe, and at the end they tip it on its end are jumping up and down on it to try to get the doors closed. There were other moments that were amusing, and at times I thought it might be satire. The fact that apparently all the business seems takes place in a pub for example.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by bigdirtyfoot » 22 Mar 2014 14:02

@Danny - I thought that several parts of the book were truly hilarious. And at other times, it was extremely drawn-out and aggravating, similar to the bureaucracy that it depicts.
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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 27 Mar 2014 18:17

Invitation to a Beheading.

I finished this today at lunch time, and really enjoyed it. It's definitely a strange book; a mix of satire and I guess existentialism. It reminded me a lot of the previous book - The Castle by Kafka, but I thought it had to significant improvements. Firstly although I realise they're both translations, the descriptive prose in this book is excellent, and so much more colourful and interesting compared with Kafka. The opening chapters are particularly good.

Secondly the main character in this seemed likeable or at least normal. K. in The Castle is a manipulative psychopath. It made a big difference having a character that was relatable. He was surrounded by characters similar to those in the Castle though.

I did find it a little hard to follow what was "reality" and what was in Cincinnatus' head at times. The mix of absurdism and seriousness in both books was sometimes a bit jarring too.

I think it was fortuitous that we read these two books one after the other, or maybe that was deliberate? Reading this did make me want to reread The Castle too.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 27 Mar 2014 18:33

This is an interesting review that I randomly found on the internet :)

http://mumpsimus.blogspot.com.au/2006/1 ... ading.html

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 28 Apr 2014 19:24

Cat's Cradle

I've read this before, actually for the 2009 50 book challenge, so I'll post my review from then at the bottom :).

I definitely enjoyed this more than last time. I probably should have mentioned in my last review that KV was clearly a really clever writer, and I really enjoy his books on a literary level. I do have some issues with this, particularly despite being satire, I think it's very cynical, and as far as the political points he's trying to make, I disagree, mainly with the premises. I also think it's rather naive.

I think the philosophy of this is particularly nihilist. There's that funny mention of the artist he rents his room to near the beginning, where nihilism is mentioned and rejected, and I'm not sure how that fits in, but it seems like that's where the plot goes from there. I think it's particularly having a go at scientists who do things merely for the pursuit of knowledge, without considering the value or consequences of such actions; and obviously he's particularly focusing on the development of nuclear weapons here.

I really like the frequent irony though, and I think the absurdism is well done, in being on the edge of believable, if that makes sense. I guess it's a very well written book with a purpose that I don't agree with, but can understand. I feel like it fits in well with the other books we've read so far.

Here's my 2009 review;
Cat's Cradle A friend of mine has a youth book club at the bookshop she works for and this was the first book for that. It's an easy read and only took me a day or two to read. Vonnegut is obviously very clever and funny, however I felt like this book is basically an attack on science and I strongly disliked that. In fact it basically starts with a Moby Dick reference where it turns out that the quest for knowledge is the whale scientists are hunting that destroys us. I'll avoid writing an essay about why I disagree. I think though, the problem is today's environment when so much science is under attack - nuclear power, gene technology, stem cells, evolution and climate change - while there are some good (science based) arguments against some aspects of those, almost all the arguments I ever hear are factually wrong and ignorant people who don't understand the science that they're disagreeing with. If we were in a different social climate I would welcome this kind of discussion about the philosophy of science, but it's obviously impossible to have these kinds of discussions without giving weight to the people who just don't know what they're talking about.
Also reminder to Danny that he needs to choose some more books.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 07 May 2014 16:55

So is anybody still in this or is it just me?

If so, how are people finding Pattern Recognition. I really enjoyed the start, but I'm finding it dense, and hard to read without without concentrating. It's actually losing out in my afternoon ritual of scotch and reading after work and be assigned to times when I'm more willing to focus. I'm still early into it, but I have noticed that it's about people obsessing over "Footage" and posting on internet forums about it, which is something I think we can relate to :) I'm a little confused about her brand psychic powers though.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by bigdirtyfoot » 09 May 2014 14:58

I will still need to read "Invitation to a Beheading", although it may be later in the year. I finally finished "Cat's Cradle" today. I don't consider my review to contain any spoilers, but to be safe you might not want to read it until you've finished the novel.

"Cat's Cradle" is the fourth novel written by Kurt Vonnegut. It is a captivating story about science and religion, with some technology and philosophy stirred in as well. The book's name is taken from the string game "cat's cradle", which I played off and on for several years in elementary school. In the novel, the fictional co-inventer of the atom bomb, Felix Hoenikker, was playing the game the exact moment the bomb was dropped.

The novel begins with the narrator, a writer named John (also named Jonah), explaining his original desire to write a book about what important Americans did on the day Hiroshima was bombed. During his research for the book, John corresponds with the children of Felix Hoenikker. The story follows John through a period of research until he and the Hoenikker children end up on the fictional Caribbean island of San Lorenzo. The island is an unusual place with a spiritual following called Bokononism, which is a nihilistic and cynical faith that questions the meaning of life and God's motivations for its creation.

Although I enjoyed this novel, it wasn't very easy for me to get hooked. Maybe I'm not much of a Bokononist after all. Puns aside, I will definitely be returning to this book later on. Now that I have an idea of what to expect, it won't take me too much effort to jump back in and read it from the beginning. Vonnegut's novel "Sirens of Titan" was similar for me the first go-round. I didn't get into it very much but I sensed that it needed a re-read. "Cat's Cradle" is certainly an entertaining novel, full of humor and philosophical commentary. I would recommend it to someone looking for a laugh or an excuse to stretch their mind a little further.

-----

Jeremy - It does seem like the books that we've read so far this year have been somewhat similar, with the absurdism/humor/irony/nihilism, etc. I'm still planning on participating in the book club, although there seems to be even less time for reading this year than last year. I find that all of Gibson's work require a lot of focus from me, otherwise I end up not understanding the story at all. Most of the time with his books, I don't know what's going on until about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way through the novel. It allows for a sort of "aha" moment mid-way through the book, which I quite like. I'm definitely looking forward to reading "Pattern Recognition" - hopefully I can finish it in May. If not, I'll definitely be shooting for June. I'm going to read something fairly short before I start on "Pattern Recognition" though, because I would like something a bit easier to read before jumping into something that I know will require a lot of attention.
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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by bigdirtyfoot » 20 Jun 2014 13:27

Pattern Recognition:

This is the first novel in William Gibson's "Blue Ant" trilogy, which is set in modern time, rather than in the future or the past. It seemed to feel closer to me than his other books, which may be because of the time it is set in.

I really enjoyed reading this novel. The characters are well fleshed-out and the plot is full of unexpected curveballs. It wasn't a fast read, but that has more to do with my lack of attention toward reading rather than the book itself.

"Pattern Recognition" was one of the most enjoyable of Gibson's books that I've read so far. It's right up there with "Neuromancer" and "Idoru" in my opinion. The genre of the book is debatable - it sits on the line between general fiction and science fiction. This kind of reminded me of Philip K Dick because his early works are more general fiction than science fiction.

I would definitely recommend this to anyone who is a fan of Gibson or someone looking for a good thriller.
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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 09 Jul 2014 19:03

Pattern Recognition:

Thoroughly enjoyed this. I agree with Dave about it being one of his best books.

It dealt with a number of themes that I'm interested in. Particularly, as the name suggests, the pursuit of patterns where none exist. I think the link of this theme with 9/11 is very good, given the conspiracy theories that developed, which being essentially ideological driven, were a consequence of assuming there was a deeper pattern and trying to find it (rather than accepting the much more transparent reality).

Another good theme was the debate about cultural relativism vs modernism/positivism. I felt like the book was making a similar point to what I tried to say in the Hacky Sack Millionaires discussion; On the subject of things that we don't know, we can usually either know that there is an answer that we haven't discovered yet, or not know whether there is an answer or not. The position that things are inherently unknowable is a step we can't often take (and many claims of inherent unknowableness have turned out to be incorrect).

I wasn't really reminded much of Crying of Lot 49. Conspiracy thrillers with female leads doesn't seem to be that much of a connection really. However I was very strongly reminded of Bret Easton Ellis's book Glamourama (the book that the movie Zoolander plagiarised).

I guess this is mainly a book about transitions. The transition from pre to post 9/11. The transition of grief from the death of a parent. The transitions of technology. The transitions of Russia. Some others I don't want to spoil.

I did think while the idea of internet viral media was reasonably prescient, we have to note that it's not avant-garde art that goes viral, but jokes, cats and bullshit. I think Gibson is often overly optimistic about humanity (I'm thinking of Virtual Light in particular).

Anyway great read, recommended.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 04 Aug 2014 17:09

Ok so I'm still reading Don Quixote, but slowly. I did really enjoy it to begin with, but I'm starting to fee like it's just iterations of Don meets people, invents chivalric story, gets beaten up, repeat. Anyway I'll struggle on, only 500 or so pages to go :P, but as the challenge topic shows, I've been taking time out to read other books.


Time Out of Joint.

It's going to be hard to write about this without spoilers, so if you haven't read it, you should skip my review. I really loved this. It's so classic PKD. War, solipsism, conspiracy, and fake realities. I did guess a lot of what was going on pretty quickly, just from having read a lot of previous PKD. I think especially Breakfast at Twilight (a short story). Still, there are plot twists all the way to the end. I really enjoy reading stories set in a future that we've now passed too. I also really like the theme that PKD uses in a lot of his work, that seemingly innocuous actions are actually holding the world together. It's like a fantasy you can tell yourself when you're doing something really boring (see We Can Remember it For You Wholesale - the short story that Total Recall is based on). Great read. Thanks David for choosing this one.

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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by bigdirtyfoot » 21 Sep 2014 13:30

Time Out Of Joint

I'm actually surprised this is the first PKD I've read this year, since I bought four more of his novels. Been too focused on William Gibson and Kurt Vonnegut. Too much to read, too little time!

This is a really solid PKD novel. One of his better works, in my opinion. It has been a few days since I finished the book, and I have been thinking about it a good amount. The plot is interesting, I greatly enjoyed the characters' personalities, and as usual - the unique depictions of yet another possible underlying reality blew my mind.

I would probably recommend this as one of the top ten PKD novels. I still have a lot more to read, but this one sticks out to me as an easy introduction to PKD. There's not too much woo-woo science fiction in this book, but the way he describes the main characters paranoia and the unbelievability of his situation was nothing short of amazing.

@Jeremy: I'm glad you enjoyed it! I waited until I finished the book to read your review, and I'm glad I did, as I like to know as little as possible about a book before I read it.
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Re: Modified Book Club

Post by Jeremy » 24 Sep 2014 16:06

A top ten PKD is a good idea. Here's my top 9, because that's all I've read I think :P. Will have to work on that. I ignored short story anthologies though, which I've read most/all of, and would be in positions 1-5 if I included them :). I think my top 5 are super good, and I'd recommend to anybody, regardless of whether they like science fiction. The bottom 4 are also good, but probably don't have as much of an appeal.

1. A Scanner Darkly
2. Valis
3. Galactic Pot Healer
4. The Man in the High Castle
5. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep
6. Time Out of Joint
7. Ubik
8. The Simulacra
9. Our Friends from Frolix 8

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