the economy and frugal living

Kick back and relax. Anything that does not have to do with footbag goes here!
User avatar
Rieferman
Flower Child
Posts: 2066
Joined: 29 Jan 2003 11:08
Location: Collegeville, PA

the economy and frugal living

Post by Rieferman » 06 Oct 2008 09:16

Just heard today that my company will most likely miss bonus and year end raises this year. Talk about a year when both of those things would be really useful right?

Anyhow, although my family can continue our current spend patterns without noticeable problems, we are cutting back anyways. Who knows where the future will lead (layoffs? $6 / gallon gas? etc.).

So here are some things we're doing, I'd be interested in what everyone else is up to as well:

- Cancel YMCA membership for now ($84 per month)
- Raise deductibles on car and home owners insurance ($30 per month)
- Transfer small credit card balance to 0% card ($10 per month)
- Cancel the land line telephone since we use cell phones ($20 per month)
- No eating out ($50 per month)
- Home efficiency - CFL bulbs, lower the thermostat, seal heat ducts to prevent air loss, unplug electronics that are in idle state, heat loss prevention film on windows, thermal blanket on water heater ($40 per month)
- Smarter grocery shopping - discount store for paper goods etc., local bulk produce place for veggies/fruit (we teamed up with neighbors to justify the bulk.. savings is unbelievable), religious coupon clipping etc. ($60 per month)

Different note:
- We also increased 401K contribution - since our horizon for taking the money out is the distant future, today's market amounts to "buying on sale"

Total monthly savings = $294 per month

Plan to use the extra to pay down my truck loan early (therefore save on interest).

What are your savings strategies right now?
Bob R.

LEGOMAN
Egyptian Footgod
Posts: 1171
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 21:00

Post by LEGOMAN » 06 Oct 2008 12:23

Image

GIVE ME YOUR MONEY BOB
People that like LEGOMAN - 10
People that hate LEGOMAN - 1000
LEGOMAN´s posts - Priceless

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 14:07

If my predictions hold true (And they have read-up on old posts) 6 dollar gasoline is going to be the least of our problems. Shit's gonna get a lot worse and it's going to be worldwide. A major airline might go down, a major car manufacturer might fold, a big TV company will go down. Frugalty is one thing, survival skills are another.

The good news is that if your rich you can put your money into a European bank. The bad news is that slowly but surely, the European Union is falling apart, which would thus make the switch from dollar's to Euro's a bad move. Idealist's and utopian's who thought that Europe could come together under a centralized plan are now seeing the fruitlessness of it. Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty a few months ago, sending EU leaders into chaos, and now the same country is leading the way to destroy any common European strategy to the banking crisis by voting to provide a 600 billion dollar guarantee on any deposit of any size in any Irish bank. A few days later Greece did the same thing. What this effectively means is that they are pulling investor's to their banks in a "Every country for himself" type of strategy. The European Union, like the League of Nations, was able to exist in times of prosperity and peace, but now that European country's are competing with each other the situation isn't so sunny.

Things are getting DRASTIC. Hypo Real Estate in Germany is in dire straights and a bailout from the German government doesn't look like it is coming. Not that it would matter much, but a large scale bailout like the one done here in America would be impossible in Europe where banks are regulated by country-to-country basis. And despite what you might think, any Euroland country is able to pull out of the Euro and revert to their old currency at any time, making any investment in Euro's look super shakey. Now even NZ and Aussie dollars, which historically were reliable currencie's during times of economic crisis, seem like a shitty place to put your money. I'm glad none of the countless people I told to change from Euro's and USD's to Autralian dollar's were actually listening to me hahaha

Guys, I'm telling you, start buying canned food. This shit is the REAL DEAL. Pretty soon we're going to start seeing why our grandparents kept their savings under a matress. Saving 84 dollars from cancelling your gym membership doesn't mean shit unless you take that 84 bucks and go buy storeable food with it while your money is worth something. Purchase a gun. Read up on how to clean and gut an animal. DO WHATEVER YOU CAN FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR LOVED ONES.

I have a huge amount of faith in our generation. It's going to be us that takes the brunt of this, or atleast has to do the real work to get us out of it. The good news is we are young and healthy and it probably wont last forever. The old line of feeling "sad for the sick and pregnant" is going to start making a lot of sense. Good luck folks take good care of your hackey sack's cause we're gonna have a lot of time to train when the power goes off and we can't waste time on modified anymore ;D
Image

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 14:15

And if you think this is 1987, check out the Price/Earning's ratio.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imAc1aakP7M

Now you must wake up,
All dreams must end.
Take off your makeup,
The party's over.
It's all over, my friend.
Image

User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy » 06 Oct 2008 15:28

Are you just copying something you read Dan? I pretty much disagreed with everything you wrote.

Putting your money in a European bank would be as silly as putting it in an American bank. European banks have been collapsing and needing bailouts as well. I would say, don't put it in a bank at all.

I also completely disagree about the EU "falling apart." The EU has never been strongly unified and on almost every decision we've seen some countries disagreeing. The fact that this is continuing to happen with the banking crisis just shows that not much has changed in EU politics. To take it as a sign that EU is going to collapse sounds ludicrous to me.

It's incredible that you say "a large scale bailout like the one done here in America would be impossible in Europe," given that there was a $10 billion bailout of Dexia about 8 days ago. Of course we're not going to see anything like a $700 billion bailout because the EU is not a single country and not governed as a single country, and because the problems with EU banks are less serious than the problems with the US banks because there is no sub prime crisis in Europe to the extent that there is one in the US. US banks are directly affected by that crisis, because they're the ones lending the money, while EU banks are affected through their association with US banks.

This rubbish about "start buying canned food" and "purchase a gun" is absolutely risible. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling.

Think about it like this. The GDP per capita in the US is about $45,000 USD. Now the GDP per capita of New Zealand is almost half at about $27,000 USD. Yet New Zealand is still a wealthy Western democracy. Things can get so much worse than they currently are before it gets to the stage of needing to buy a gun, especially in this case where the people losing the most are the ones with the most to lose - ie. those with large investments in the stock market and real estate.



In terms of the initial question, I'm not really doing anything, but I work fulltime and have no serious financial commitments, so proportionally a lot of expendable income.

Frank_Sinatra
Avenging Disco Godfather
Posts: 1660
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 12:43
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by Frank_Sinatra » 06 Oct 2008 15:49

I'm just gonna keep buying toys probably.

Jack Stutler
Multidex Master
Posts: 287
Joined: 25 May 2008 18:14
Location: Twin City Land, Minnesota
Contact:

Post by Jack Stutler » 06 Oct 2008 16:00

Frank_Sinatra wrote:I'm just gonna keep buying toys probably.
And footbags, footbag shoes, and hookers, gotta have the hookers.
C-Fan wrote:After I read it I thought to myself: "this is the best tourney write-up I've ever read...and he didn't even make it to the tourney!"
Challenge Footblog

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 16:11

Putting your money in a European bank would be as silly as putting it in an American bank. European banks have been collapsing and needing bailouts as well. I would say, don't put it in a bank at all.
This is exactly the same thing I said. Read Jeremy, don't skim.
I also completely disagree about the EU "falling apart." The EU has never been strongly unified and on almost every decision we've seen some countries disagreeing. The fact that this is continuing to happen with the banking crisis just shows that not much has changed in EU politics. To take it as a sign that EU is going to collapse sounds ludicrous to me.
A financial depression would disinegrate the EU. Disagree if you want, maybe a depression wouldn't disinegrate it I'm not going to look TOO far into the future. Seems logical to me in a financial crisis that country's would become more mercantilistic, thus leading to friction between European country's. Again you bring up the fatc that the EU has had internal disagreements before (Lisbon for example) but if a country were to find it profittable to revert back to their old currency out of the Euro, you'd probably have a domino effect until the Euro ceased to be. Like I said, this would be easier for individual country's to do than most people would like to believe.
It's incredible that you say "a large scale bailout like the one done here in America would be impossible in Europe," given that there was a $10 billion bailout of Dexia about 8 days ago. Of course we're not going to see anything like a $700 billion bailout because the EU is not a single country and not governed as a single country, and because the problems with EU banks are less serious than the problems with the US banks because there is no sub prime crisis in Europe to the extent that there is one in the US. US banks are directly affected by that crisis, because they're the ones lending the money, while EU banks are affected through their association with US banks.
Dude, READ DON'T SKIM. 10 billion is not 700 billion, and thus not a large scale bailout. I didn't say that banks and companies weren't being bailed out in Europe did you not see what I wrote about Hypo? You're just repeating my points. Regulatory processes differ country to country, like both of us have said now, so a 700 billion bailout is completely unfeasible.
This rubbish about "start buying canned food" and "purchase a gun" is absolutely risible. I'm not sure if you're serious or trolling.
Okay... Have fun being hungry. You wouldn't be the first idiot to not see a crisis coming. Most people don't and that's what makes a recession a crisis.
Think about it like this. The GDP per capita in the US is about $45,000 USD. Now the GDP per capita of New Zealand is almost half at about $27,000 USD. Yet New Zealand is still a wealthy Western democracy. Things can get so much worse than they currently are before it gets to the stage of needing to buy a gun, especially in this case where the people losing the most are the ones with the most to lose - ie. those with large investments in the stock market and real estate.
Not sure you understand how financial systems work. Markets work as the capital function in any economy, and your thinking that things stalling at the top wont trickle down is truly ridiculous. Credit markets seizing up at the top will trickle down and create a crisis at all levels. If you don't realize this, you're nutty and doing a true disservice to anyone whom you give advice to. Financial crisis's aren't determined by point drops in the market, they're determined by how common individual's perceive the situation. Right now, we're in a stage that keeps holding on to the hope that this will be a recession like the one in 1987 or 2001. What will be the straw that shatter's the investor's confidence is yet to be seen, and the scary part is that there are many potential "straws".
Image

Frank_Sinatra
Avenging Disco Godfather
Posts: 1660
Joined: 09 Jan 2007 12:43
Location: Chicago, IL

Post by Frank_Sinatra » 06 Oct 2008 16:56

Jack Stutler wrote:And footbags, footbag shoes, and hookers, gotta have the hookers.
Its just not Monday night without at least one hooker.

User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy » 06 Oct 2008 18:18

So when you said;

"The good news is that if your rich you can put your money into a European bank."

What you actually meant was;

"Don't put your money into a European bank."


Logical...



Do you want to make a firm prediction about when I'm going to start going hungry due to this financial crisis? It will be easy to test to see which of us is right. I just think you should make a firm prediction because otherwise you can be like the LaRouche followers and make these predictions of massive economic collapse, but never be wrong because it's always just going to happen at some stage in the future.


Re a large scale bailout in Europe. It's not just "unfeasible," it would be unnecessary. It is entirely feasible that could see a similar amount of value in total bailouts in Europe, but we're talking about countries with much smaller economies, so no individual bailout will be comparable. That doesn't mean Europe as a whole doesn't have as much abilities to deal with the issue as the US does, which is what you were suggesting. The fact that there won't be a single large scale bailout is irrelevant and not a sign of any potential weakness at all.

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 19:52

So when you said;

"The good news is that if your rich you can put your money into a European bank."

What you actually meant was;

"Don't put your money into a European bank."
Well when that sentence is followed up by "But the bads news is... the European Union doesn't stand a chance" I assume the reader will make the connection that I was speaking sarcastically. My point was that this is going to be a worldwide crisis, and no matter what currency we're talking, your money is about to be worthless. The joke was based on the fact that a large number of people think that putting their dollar's in Euro's is a safe bet when really it's just as shakey as the USD. It really wasn't that hard to figure out young Jerome.

In fact, Europe stands even less of a chance in this crisis because their ecomony's depend even more on loans from banks than the US does.
Do you want to make a firm prediction about when I'm going to start going hungry due to this financial crisis? It will be easy to test to see which of us is right. I just think you should make a firm prediction because otherwise you can be like the LaRouche followers and make these predictions of massive economic collapse, but never be wrong because it's always just going to happen at some stage in the future.
Funny thing is I was going to do just that in my earlier post, but assumed putting a figure on it would make my dire warning even less appealing to you blind optimists. Here it is: If you're still able to argue your point 6 months from now, then the bailout worked. The truth is the bailout won't work and will only delay the inevitable. Even if you can argue your point 6 months from now, their is nothing that can stop this crisis and in a years time I feel 99.9% safe in saying you will be jobless and hungry unless you stock up on storeable food items. I'm not making these posts to vindicate what I've been saying for years; I'm doing it because I love you and I want you to be safe in times like these. Unlike you, however, I don't look forward to my prediction being right, assured as I am that what I say is indeed true.

Let's put more than our intellectual pride (Of which mine is vastly superior to yours ;D ) on the line here Jerome; say 6 months from now the world is still living in this dream that economic depression isn't inevitable. In this case I will send you TWENTY USD. If the reverse is true, however, you will be responsible for finding some means to get to Seattle with 20 cans of "Campbell's Beef and Barley" soup, to be delivered unto myself and my loved ones. This is a pretty safe bet in my mind. I might as well be trading shit for soup.
Re a large scale bailout in Europe. It's not just "unfeasible," it would be unnecessary. It is entirely feasible that could see a similar amount of value in total bailouts in Europe, but we're talking about countries with much smaller economies, so no individual bailout will be comparable. That doesn't mean Europe as a whole doesn't have as much abilities to deal with the issue as the US does, which is what you were suggesting. The fact that there won't be a single large scale bailout is irrelevant and not a sign of any potential weakness at all.
If you believe that the long term strength of the Euro is unimportant, than I would agree that a EU wide bailout is unnecessary. The fact is, as more country's begin to feel suspicious that the Euro will collapse, the more country's are going to revert back to their old currency's. This will only further shake public confidence, and lead us further into the depth's of panic. Like I said earlier; it isn't any point drop on the markets that creates a depression, it's a culmination of actual financial fuck up's and the consumer realization of such fuck ups that creates a depression.
Image

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 20:04

And when you all realize that this "troll" from modified was right all along, you are more than welcome to come serve on my compound on Bainbridge where through my divine guidance I will keep your stomach's full of lentil's and the occasional piece of liver from a deer that I bag. Just kidding, I'll kick you piece of meat ;D

Really though guys, I've been right this far, just buy some fucking soup already.
Image

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 20:11

And just in case you question the divine knowledge granted to unto me through J*hweh, take in this post I made on modified 2 October's ago:
"...it will be us who bears the brunt of the supposed economic fallouts... As it stands at this point, the world seems ripe for great conflict, and 9/11 in my mind stands parrell to Black Tuesday, while the rest of the crisis will come at a later date, as it did with WW2 in the 40's."
So guys, am I right or am I right or am I right? What's so scary is that the thread I made these predictions in didn't get a single reply, but I guess that is to be expected from blind optimists. Almost a metaphor for the shutter's you've all had on your eyes for some time now.

*Condesencion end
Image

User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy » 06 Oct 2008 20:49

Economic depression is not the same as not being able to afford food.

I like that bet, but lets be much clearer on it.

"In a years time I feel 99.9% safe in saying you will be jobless and hungry unless you stock up on storeable food items."

That sounds like a much better bet, then saying that an economic depression isn't inevitable. If we go all the way back to the great depression in the 1930s, times were certainly tough and unemployment was at almost 25% - but that means that the majority of people still had jobs and could still afford food.

Depressions are also hard to define, while it will be easy for me to know if getting enough food is a struggle, or if I have a job or not.


That said, if we're in as severe an economic depression as you're suggesting, but I manage to put myself in a situation where I'm not struggling, I will still send you 20 cans of "Campbell's Beef and Barely" soup (or an equivalent if Campbell's are one of the companies to collapse).

So let me express the bet in clear terms;


If in 1 year Jeremy is unemployed and struggling to get food that he hadn't previously stored away, or if there is a very severe economic depression but Jeremy used his intellect and/or government/family connections to avoid suffering then he will send Dan 20 cans of Campbell's Beef and Barley soup. If, however, Jeremy is still employed at this time and there is no economic depression to the extent that hoarding canned food and buying guns is an advantage to people, Dan will send Jeremy $20 USD.


I just wanted to add that there is a reasonable chance that in one years time I will be studying full time, so only working a little bit, or maybe not at all, but relying on government welfare and scholarships to sustain myself. If the Australian government is still willing to pay people for studying at University to a level where it is possible to support myself independently, I think this should count as being employed and will be a clear indication that any economic downturn is not as severe as Dan is suggesting.

How does this sound Dan? Do we have a bet?

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 21:14

Oh silliness Jerome we both know that if and when I prove right their will be no way for you to make good on your side of the bet. So let's rearrange. If 12 months from now international shipping is still available, the original terms of our bet stand. If 6 months from now, the world has entered a depression (Which I think intelligent folk such as ourselves can disassociate from a recession or general hard times) then you will never post on another footbag forum again. Same goes for me. Either way the odds are heavily stacked in your favor because when the depression comes, posting on a footbag forum will seem rather frivolous, but I'm willing to go out on a limb here because I know my intellect is vastly superior to yours.

Also if this bet is to stand, I need verifiable proof that you have the means to make good on your side of the deal. I say this because, based on what I know of you you wont have the nerve to loot for 20 cans of soup for little old Dan. What I'm saying is that I need a picture of you next to 20 cans of Beef and Barley soup (Or whatever soup you choose for that matter I'm not usually picky when I'm starving) before this deal can be ratified. If no depression comes, I will give you the twenty dollars owed, and also reimburse you for the soup, which you can do with as you please.

Deal?
Image

User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy » 06 Oct 2008 21:21

Ok deal.

I will go buy 20 cans of Campbell's Beef and Barely soup today and post up a photo with me and the soup.

BainbridgeShred
Post Master General
Posts: 2352
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 23:22
Contact:

Post by BainbridgeShred » 06 Oct 2008 21:25

K I'll use my friends camera to take a pic of your twenty in the next few days. I'll keep it under my bed with the rest of my money.
Image

User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy » 06 Oct 2008 21:46

That's ok, I'm happy to assume you will have the $20 if there isn't the massive economic collapse you are predicting :).

User avatar
Jeremy
"Really unneccesary"
Posts: 10178
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 00:20
Location: Tasmania

Post by Jeremy » 07 Oct 2008 04:02

Image

I tried to do my best wigga impersonation, but I failed big time. They didn't have any beef and barley, so I just got a random selection on the assumption that either I'm going to win the bet and have to eat the soup, or this is a troll from Dan, and I'm still going to have to eat the soup. It cost $50 AUD by the way. I kept the receipt :P


So soup and footbag party at my place, this time in a year :D

User avatar
ted
Atomsmashasaurus Dex
Posts: 790
Joined: 12 Sep 2002 10:34
Location: CO
Contact:

Post by ted » 07 Oct 2008 06:43

This thread has me uncontrollably snickering in my work cubicle.
Theodore Anderson

Post Reply