Worlds 2006 Shred30s (counting, discussion, etc)

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 23 Jul 2006 22:09

Hey all.

The top 3 Shred30s from this years worlds are out on video, and it seems there is some controversy about it (Jorden`s DaDa Curves).

Rather than clutter the Worlds thread, I thought I`d just start a new one.

So far, all I`ve seen is Jorden`s Shred30. I thought it was pretty cool, but I can understand why people are kinda iffy about the DaDas. Personally, I don`t really care about the add count of the tricks. Is DaDa a "cheap" 4 add? I wouldn`t say so. I think it`s just as deserving as pixie butterfly, pdx whirl, or dyno really. The main problem with DaDas, is cleanliness. This brings us to the main question about Shred30s which needs to be addressed. How should unclean moves be counted?

At Worlds 05, the organizers of the tourney showed footage of Vasek`s Shred30 final to several top players, asking them if they thought a particular move (blurriest) was "the" or not. I think they determined it was, and counted it as a non-unique ripwalk. But it raised an interesting question, which I think also applies to this year`s shred finals. If a trick isn`t hit cleanly, how should it be counted? Is it fair to give it a unique add? Is a "the" blurriest really a ripwalk? What if a competitor had already hit blurriest on that side, but not ripwalk? By counting the "the" blurriest as a ripwalk, you actually improve their score.

The video player (and computer) I used to watch Jorden`s shred isn`t great, so I`d like to re-watch it once I get home. That said, I thought the pdx and blurry dadas could have been deeper. Which brings us to the problem discussed in the last paragraph: how should they be counted? I was wondering if anybody at Worlds who was involved in judging could tell us how they were counted, and if there was any discussion about it.

In any case, I think it could be good for us to watch all the finals Shred 30s (when released), transcribe them here, and double check the scores.

In my next post, I will transcribe Jorden`s shred, and later on calculate the actual score. I encourage others to calculate on their own, so we can double/triple check everything.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 23 Jul 2006 22:20

Jorden Moir, Shred30 final

Toe stall (clock starts)- clipper stall- blurry whirl (score starts)-ps mirage-fairy butterfly-blurry dada-pdx dada-pdx blender-pdx whirl-pdx drifter-pdx torque-infinity-ps whirl-spinning whirl- spinning butterfly-ripwalk-ripwalk- symp whirl-sidewalk-blur-parkwalk-blizzard -dimwalk-sidewalk-blur-parkwalk-DROP -toe stall-dimwalk- stepping whirl- ps whirl-spinning osis- motion

1 adds: 1 non unique

3 adds: 1 unique

4 adds: 19 unique

5 adds: 8 unique

6 adds: 1 unique.

29 unique tricks total, EDIT 31 contacts total, 126 adds. If somebody could calculate the add ratio, and somebody could double check the stopwatch (it should start on the toe stall and run 30 seconds), then we should get the score pretty fast.

pillar · Post by **pillar** » 23 Jul 2006 23:02

29 unique tricks total, 30 contacts total, 126 adds.

add ratio = 126 / 30 = 4.2

.. and according to my memory the formula was:

(add ratio * uniques) + adds = total score

if that's the case then the score according to your calculations would be:

(4.2 * 29) + 126 = 247.8

I've been little out of touch with footbag lately, so correct me if I'm wrong

wolfpac444 · Post by **wolfpac444** » 24 Jul 2006 01:47

I did these all the other day. * means not unique.

Jorden
---------
(I believe all contacts are within 30 seconds)
(left foot clipper) blurry whirl 5 > ps mirage 4 > fairy butterfly 4 > blurry dada 6 > paradox dada 5 > p blender 5 > p whirl 4 > p drifter 4 > p torque 5 > infinity 3 > ps whirl 5 > spinning whirl 5 > spinning butterfly 4 > ripwalk 4 > ripwalk 4 > symp whirl 4 > sidewalk 4 > blur 4 > parkwalk 4 > blizzard 4 > dimwalk 4 > sidewalk 4 > blur 4 > parkwalk 4 > DROP *
left toe * 1 > dimwalk 4 > stepping whirl 4 > ps whirl 5 > spinning osis 4 > far motion 5

Contacts: 31
Adds: 126
Uniques: 29
Score: 243.87 = ((29/31) + 1) * 126

Vasek:
---------
(I believe all contacts are within 30 seconds)
(right toe) legbeater 4 > sidewalk 4 > stepping whirl 4 > stepping clipper 3 > schmoe 3 > pixie ss whirl 4 > ripwalk 4 > spinning butterfly 4 > stepping osis 4 > barfly 4 > spinning osis 4 > ps whirl 5 > spinning clipper 3 > spinning butterfly 4 > ripwalk * 4 > ripwalk 4 > blurry whirl 5 > blurry whirl 5 > whirr 5 > ps whirl * 5 > ps whirl 5 > spinning whirl 5 > scoprion's tail 5 > mobius 5 > infinity 3 > * DROP
(right foot clipper) butterfly 3 > ducking butterfly 4 > ducking butterfly 4 >ducking osis 4

Contacts: 30
Adds: 120
Uniques: 26
Score: 224 = ((26/30) + 1) * 120

Honza
-------------
(I didn't have a stop watch, but based on my video player, I think the last two contacts don't count.)
(right toe) dimwalk 4 > sidewalk 4 > ripwalk 4 > sidewalk 4 > blizzard 4 > parkwalk 4 > blur 4 > legbeater 4 > ripwalk 4 > blurry whirl 5 > blurry whirl 5 > ps whirl 5 > dyno 4 > p blender 5 > p whirl 4 > spinning osis 4 > far motion 5 > ducking osis 4 > torque 4 > drop *
mirage * 2 > smear 3 > phoenix 5 > diving butterfly 4 > food 6 > infinity 3 > spinning clip 3 > infinity 3 > spinning clip 3 > locomotion * 6 > ducking osis *4 #TIME#> infinity * 3 > p torque 5

Adds: 123
Contacts: 31
Uniques: 27
Score: 230.13 = ((27/31) + 1)*123

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 24 Jul 2006 02:28

wolfpac444 wrote:I did these all the other day. * means not unique.

Jorden
---------
(I believe all contacts are within 30 seconds)
(left foot clipper) blurry whirl 5 > ps mirage 4 > fairy butterfly 4 > blurry dada 6 > paradox dada 5 > p blender 5 > p whirl 4 > p drifter 4 > p torque 5 > infinity 3 > ps whirl 5 > spinning whirl 5 > spinning butterfly 4 > ripwalk 4 > ripwalk 4 > symp whirl 4 > sidewalk 4 > blur 4 > parkwalk 4 > blizzard 4 > dimwalk 4 > sidewalk 4 > blur 4 > parkwalk 4 > DROP *
left toe * 1 > dimwalk 4 > stepping whirl 4 > ps whirl 5 > spinning osis 4 > far motion 5

Contacts: 31
Adds: 126
Uniques: 29
Score: 243.87 = ((29/31) + 1) * 126

This looks good to me. I forgot to count the drop as a contact, but if I did, I would have had the same number of uniques, adds, and contacts. I trust Hansens math is right.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 24 Jul 2006 07:59

Discussion:

C-Fan wrote: I thought the pdx and blurry dadas could have been deeper. .

To me "could have been deeper"=hit. Unless something is a obviously "the" (and with that camera angle almost nothing could be called blatantly the) it should be counted. IN informal shred, sure you may want to mention, hey get those dexes a biit more pronounced, but in comp, even toey dexes = hit trick IMO.

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 24 Jul 2006 15:01

Both the dada curves looked fine to me - definatly countable.

As far as 'doing moves that don't deserve their adds' is concerned, if you are going to get picky about dada curve being too easy for 4 adds, why not get picky about butterfly, pdx mirage and osis being 3adds? They are all too easy for their adds aswell, many people can hit butterfly before they can even do a solid clipper.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 24 Jul 2006 17:17

I agree completely with the last two posts. What's more, it seems that upon rescoring the shred 30's there was an even wider gap between Jorden and Honza that was thought before. So I think before people get on dada curve's balls and take its add value up with the IFPA (LOL) more consistent shred 30 scoring needs to be practiced.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 24 Jul 2006 22:23

Yeah going by those scores, the dada curves are pretty irrelevent. Anyway it's pointless arguing on modified where 90% of people are so immature their responce to something they disagree with is to personally attack you. I stopped doing that when I was about 15.

LinoSphere · Post by **LinoSphere** » 25 Jul 2006 10:59

just to let you know:
worlds shreds were counted by max kerkhoff, jakob wagner and me.
we did count the dada curves because they were good enough, even though "the pdx and blurry dadas could have been deeper".
after having counted for the first time and upon realizing how close it was, we counted another time and double checked the camera time code. the second count lead to some change in number of contacts and final score but did not affect the order of the three top players.
unluckily, i left the sheets with our notes and calculations in the office in frankfurt so i can't tell you what exact numbers the results were based on.

Abe · Post by **Abe** » 26 Jul 2006 21:53

doe anyone have a url to get the videos from?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 26 Jul 2006 22:32

LinoSphere wrote:just to let you know:
worlds shreds were counted by max kerkhoff, jakob wagner and me.
we did count the dada curves because they were good enough, even though "the pdx and blurry dadas could have been deeper".
after having counted for the first time and upon realizing how close it was, we counted another time and double checked the camera time code. the second count lead to some change in number of contacts and final score but did not affect the order of the three top players.
unluckily, i left the sheets with our notes and calculations in the office in frankfurt so i can't tell you what exact numbers the results were based on.

Yeah thanks Matthias - the results we were going by were second hand and not the official results so that created some confusion. In future it would probably be best to wait for the official results before shooting my mouth off

Forestall · Post by **Forestall** » 04 Sep 2006 07:00

Okay, we have the top three.

What about the rest of the 20 finalists?

ShredOnLawn · Post by **ShredOnLawn** » 08 Sep 2006 19:40

Good Topic.

A the Blurriest should be a 4 add Blurriest, not ripwalk.

Confusing Aspects Include:

1) When does time start.

2) When does Contact Counting Start.

3) When does Contact counting stop.

4) Do all drops count even if all contacts don't.

What if the last trick is set after 29 seconds, caught after 30 seconds, but barely caught and not followed by any further contact because the set off the last trick just kinda rolls up a few inches. What if that trick is the 31st trick?

If it was a drop then it would count right because all drops count.

But if it was executed perfectly then it might not count because only the first 30 contacts count.

Do you have 30 seconds to hit as many contacts as you want?

Or is it the first 30 tricks plus the drops.

Or do only the first 30 count.

If add and contact counting doesn't start on the clipper stall and only 29 contacts are completed then should that clipper count towards the total adds and the total contacts or just the total adds.

What if the last trick is set after 29 seconds but dropped after 30 seconds and that is the 30th contact. What if it's a drop and was the 31st contact.

Do all drops count no matter when?

Do all tricks count no matter when?

Can someone score this.

Clipper-Blur-Legbeater-Blizzard-Parkwalk-Sidewalk-Paradox Drifter-Paradox Torque-Paradox Whirl-Spinning Whirl-Mobius-Torque-Barfly-Spinning Butterfly-Ripwalk-Blur-Legbeater-Blizzard-Parkwalk-Sidewalk-Paradox Drifter-Paradox Torque-Paradox Whirl-Spinning Whirl-Mobius-Torque-Barfly-Spinning Butterfly-Ripwalk-Blurry Whirl-Blurry Whirl-Hand Catch

Time would start on the clipper stall and end right before the hand catch.

setman · Post by **setman** » 09 Sep 2006 02:04

Code: Select all

Blur-Legbeater-Blizzard-Parkwalk-Sidewalk-Paradox Drifter-Paradox Torque-Paradox Whirl-Spinning Whirl-Mobius-Torque-Barfly-Spinning Butterfly-Ripwalk-Blur-Legbeater-Blizzard-Parkwalk-Sidewalk-Paradox Drifter-Paradox Torque-Paradox Whirl-Spinning Whirl-Mobius-Torque-Barfly-Spinning Butterfly-Ripwalk-Blurry Whirl-Blurry Whirl-Hand Catch

[444444545544444444445455444455]

30 contacts
30 unique
125 adds
250 points

----------------------------------------------------------------
If the first clipper is counted:

Code: Select all

Clipper-Blur-Legbeater-Blizzard-Parkwalk-Sidewalk-Paradox Drifter-Paradox Torque-Paradox Whirl-Spinning Whirl-Mobius-Torque-Barfly-Spinning Butterfly-Ripwalk-Blur-Legbeater-Blizzard-Parkwalk-Sidewalk-Paradox Drifter-Paradox Torque-Paradox Whirl-Spinning Whirl-Mobius-Torque-Barfly-Spinning Butterfly-Ripwalk-Blurry Whirl-Blurry Whirl-Hand Catch

[244444454554444444445455444455]

31 contacts
30 unique
127 adds
249.9 points

Worlds 2006 Shred30s (counting, discussion, etc)

Worlds 2006 Shred30s (counting, discussion, etc)

Re: Worlds 2006 Shred30s (counting, discussion, etc)