X dex = Paradox

HG · Post by HG » 22 Jul 2005 05:53

I was thinking about this while i was droppin a deuce. Xdex is the equivalent of paradox. Paradox is " A move that requires a double hip pivot"

A move that doesnt get paradox, like Atomsmasher, requires a double hip pivot, therefore, receives x dex.

I guess my point is, X dex DOES make the add system more accurate. But im sure we have already established this and i guess this topic is kind of unnecessary.....

I dont know. Whatever.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 22 Jul 2005 06:18

I totally agree - I think x dex should be exactly the same as pdx - they should be the same add. They are just an add you get when you do a far full dex. You get pdx because the bag is set from the far side. You get xdex because you perform some uptime component that means the bag has to have moved to the farside and then come back. It really is the same thing. When pdx was conceptionalised (is that a real word?) there really weren't many people doing uptime dexes that would lead to the bag having to move to a farside after the set and then back to a full dex so they wouldn't have thought of x dex. Rather than calling it x dex we should just call everything pdx. Ie. atomsmasher is an atomic pdx mirage as opposed to tap which is an atomic mirage (non pdx). Sumo is a pdx atomic pdx mirage etc.

I dunno - it's a pretty insignificant thing but it would make the concepts easier to understand and more logical in my opinion. After all spinning can count for pdx - why can't a dexing set?

HG · Post by HG » 22 Jul 2005 07:49

Thank you. YOu explained my thoughts better.

My point is. There shouldnt be debate to whether Xdex is used, it should be used no matter what. If you are one of those people who doesnt use x dex, you shouldnt be using Paradox either.

Oh man i hit a sick beast combo!

whirlwind>mullet>whirlwind

Nope thats a fearless combo!

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 22 Jul 2005 11:32

HenryG wrote: whirlwind>mullet>whirlwind

that would be a beast, whereas "warp > pixie massacre > quantum symp eggbeater" would only be a 5-5-5 unless you counted x-dex.
i thought x-dex was officially used since worlds 2001?

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 22 Jul 2005 11:58

If X-Dex is the same thing as Paradox, then is Sumo a 4-ADD or 5-ADD move? Does Paradox Atomsmasher get a paradox ADD AND an X-Dex ADD? Thats like saying that is has two paradox components in it. Or, does it just get the Paradox ADD, and no X-Dex?

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 22 Jul 2005 15:50

x dex has been used at official IFPA events for a long time but isn't as yet part of the official ifpa rules. (yet). Pdx is and has a very strong chance of remaining that way so long as I am in the IFC.

Yes Sumo would be 5 adds - it's a pdx atomic set and then the nature of the pdx atomic leads it to be able to get a pdx add for a full dex on the other side - so it's a pdx atomic pdx mirage.

Theoretically you could get another pdx add on the otherside - ie. pdx atomic pdx miraging pdx whirl - clip>same out>op in>op in>op clip. Good lucking hitting that though.

Note this isn't how the add system works - it's just how it should work on the "xdex is the same as pdx theory"

HG · Post by HG » 22 Jul 2005 16:03

Chris when i said whirlwind>mullet>whirlwind isnt a beast i was essentially saying

"If you dont count x dex you shouldnt count pdx. "

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 23 Jul 2005 18:01

HenryG wrote:Chris when i said whirlwind>mullet>whirlwind isnt a beast i was essentially saying

"If you dont count x dex you shouldnt count pdx. "

yeah, i'm totally on your side with this

i just used your combo as an example

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 23 Jul 2005 18:16

wow thanks jeremy that makes a whole lot more sense now. and that would be cool to be able to say atomic pdx mirage and atomic mirage instead of atomic ss mirage

Chim-Chim · Post by **Chim-Chim** » 23 Jul 2005 21:41

is leggy atom smasher 4 adds or 3 adds?

dazza · Post by **dazza** » 27 Jul 2005 18:24

Does toe blur get an x dex add ?

There are two full dexes, like in atomsmasher, but is there really
a double hip pivot involved in a quantum mirage ?

Jeremy ?

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 27 Jul 2005 18:27

Yes, it gets x-dex.

james_dean · Post by **james_dean** » 27 Jul 2005 23:08

yeah x-dex doesn't take into account the double hip pivot, just the full dexes

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 28 Jul 2005 08:09

NuR wrote:Does toe blur get an x dex add ?

There are two full dexes, like in atomsmasher, but is there really
a double hip pivot involved in a quantum mirage ?

Jeremy ?

1) Turn to get the bag outside of the first dexing leg.

*observe position of bag

2) Pivot into the dex and then bag out, identical to paradox mirage

I would argue yes, there is a double hip pivot.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 28 Jul 2005 08:38

lol, am I the x dexpert now? - I agree with what's been said already - I just wanted to comment because I like the word "dexpert"

Accurate description of my freestyle game too probably.

Actially while most pdx and xdex mvoes have a double hip pivot - I think it's a problem in sayint that that's why those moves get the add. There are clearly pdx moves that do not have a double hip pivot or that do depending on how you hit them. Pdx whirl and blender for example. I'm sure they could be hit with a double hit pivot but most people these days do not. The double hip pivot is really just a way of trying to explain pdx so people can "see" where the add comes from. In my opinion the reason those adds exist is because a single dex can involve going around the bag a different amount. For example with a butterfly you hardly go around the bag at all - while with a pdx whirl the bag has to go infront of the support leg, infront of the dexing leg, behind the dexing leg, back infront of the dexing and then be stalled. Some varients of butterfly involve more dexing then a toe set op butterfly but the difference is only small. Compare how much you go around the bag for butterfly to pdx whirl though and it is clear that you have to do a lot more "dexing" for one dex add with a pdx whirl - hence an extra add is neccessary.

People say adds aren't about difficulty. Well the only thing adds are used for these days is scoring shred 30 competitions. So at this stage their only purpose really is to represent difficulty. They don't do it as well as they could but the various additions are slowly making them more accurate. Remember that footbag is very very new - half the moves people hit these days didn't exist 10 years ago. We can't expect it to be perfect yet. Compare the laws of footbag adds to the laws of a country. In Australia our laws are over 100 years old and we are still paying people ridiculous amounts of money to improve those laws (politicians). I would say there is a good chance we will never have a perfect system for comparing the difficulty of moves but that shouldn't stop us from trying!

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 31 Jul 2005 04:52

I skipped Jeremy's last post because it's soooo long (not really, but I just read the whole thread from start to finish and I only got, like, 4 hours of sleep.)

I'm "one of those anti-xdex" people. This thread title has been intriguing me for days, but I never actually went to read it. I totally agree with you guys, too. I think we should just call them both paradox. I'm not a huge fan of, like, witchdoctor, and sumo, etc being 5s, because it seems cheap. I guess I am uncomfortable with the change. Xdex = feh! Paradox = ooo.

I was going to start a thread about this; I think we have to keep in mind how seriously new this sport is. I mean the players who INVENTED footbag, basically, are still BUSTING. That's pretty freaking new!! Everything is going to change. I remember seeing someone post that Vasek is NOTHING, because the sport is just beginning -- this is so true. There is so much that hasn't even been "invented" yet!!!!!!!

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 10 Aug 2005 08:41

I think about X-Dex like about something "extra" (X) you have to do the Dexterity (DEX) ... The extra effor you have to put into the trick. It can be double hip pivot like in Atomsmasher, or extra speed like in Triple ATW, Nemesis, Fusion...
I think that this is the common way to interpret X-DEX here in Poland and most polish players think about it this way (maybe I'm wrong)...

I know that a lot of you don't think about these moves like about x-dex moves, bu... I just can't agree with you...