Are osis and gyro clipper different tricks?
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Frank_Sinatra
- Avenging Disco Godfather
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: 09 Jan 2007 12:43
- Location: Chicago, IL
Spinning gyro clipper is an intense move.
Gyro clipper is one of my staples, certainly not a 'crap' move. Is anyone really arguing about osis form anymore? I thought it was already obvious.
Jeeez
oh yes, don't plant on gyro clipper! It's cooler that way.
For the people that voted 'yes', shame on you!
Gyro clipper is one of my staples, certainly not a 'crap' move. Is anyone really arguing about osis form anymore? I thought it was already obvious.
Jeeez
oh yes, don't plant on gyro clipper! It's cooler that way.
For the people that voted 'yes', shame on you!
James McCullough
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Frank_Sinatra
- Avenging Disco Godfather
- Posts: 1660
- Joined: 09 Jan 2007 12:43
- Location: Chicago, IL
The red means I'm posting this as a mod. GRRRRRRRR.
I'm glad to see there have not been any new attacks in this thread in the past few hours. Some posts are going to be removed or edited - they may already be removed or edited by the time you read this. As long as this thread continues in a constructive discussion of the two tricks, its fine. Further personal attacks will not be tolerated.
I'm glad to see there have not been any new attacks in this thread in the past few hours. Some posts are going to be removed or edited - they may already be removed or edited by the time you read this. As long as this thread continues in a constructive discussion of the two tricks, its fine. Further personal attacks will not be tolerated.
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Outsider
- Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: 21 May 2003 21:30
- Location: Bridgewater, New Jersey
To digress from the stated topic a little --
Scoopy osis is good. Scoop gives style. Look at alot of different people doing consecutive osis -- some are too scoopy -- they have bad form -- what shows is how they are often reaching and struggling to hit their osises. On the other hand, some people are on the opposite end of the spectrum -- they have almost completely eliminated any scoopyness from their osis, and their form looks bad in a different way -- technically, their form is fine, and they are in complete control, but, the moves just look mechanical and very unstyly. I see otherwise great players with consecutive osis like this and I keenly hope my osis does not look like theirs. Best osis at least a modest scoop to them.
Its a shame more of you haven't seen lots of footage of Dave Holton shred. He had very scoopy osis -- probably too much by even a fairly tolerant standard - but I loved the way they looked.
One problem with scoopy osis is mostly that they are the only way that very poor players can hit them at all. People see an osis with lots of scoop and they think -- BAD Osis!. But, its not really the scoop that makes them bad, its just that they're seeing somebody who is, over-all, bad at footbag. Good footbag players with scoopy osis have the best osis. Good players can do osis with way too much scoop, but usually only when they are trying to prove some point and are deliberately trying to show an example of a very bad osis -- its not really the scoop that makes their examples so bad, its that they are also deliberately trying to use ONLY scoop while completely eliminating spin from their demonstration. This is bad just like trying to use all spin and deliberately trying to eliminate all scoop is bad. Best osis use spin and scoop together. Perhaps more spin that scoop, but they still use some scoop together with their spin.
One more point regarding the whole issue of "osis as a spin" -- yeah, osis has a spinny element to it, but, keep in mind, osis was osis before osis was defined as a move containing a "spin" element. This is to say, there was this behind-the-back-clipper trick called osis well before all footbag moves were systematically broken-down into the "move categories" that were arbitrarily determined to make up all moves. Several broad move categories were invented (dexterity, delay, body, cross-body, unusual surface) to aid in defining freestyle moves, scoring moves and competitions, and to aid in the pursuit of new combinations of move-elements to help invent new moves. This is to say, osis wasn't invented to be a spin, osis was, long after invention, later defined as demonstrating the move category of "spinning" because, in order to define osis it had to be labeled with as demonstrating/containing some of the same move-categories as other freestyle moves, and "spinning" was a conveniently broad label for it. One could say that the "spin" in osis is somewhat analogous to the "dexterity" in a cross-body rake. We all know that a cross-body rake, be one definition, is a "dexterity" move (along with "cross-body" and "delay"), but just because it meets this one sort of definition, nobody really mistakenly believes that one's leg must actually circle around the bag in mid-air in order to properly perform a cross-body rake. Similarly, just because one definition of osis says that there is a "spin" performed in an osis, one does not need to take this 100% literally and say "because the definition of osis says it contains a spin, than any way of of doing an osis that is not 100% dependant on spinning is wrong, and any sort of movement that does not meet a literal definition of spin, cross-body, and delay must be absent from a properly performed osis". It would be absurdly dogmatic to say such a thing, and one would also have to be willfully naive to fall for this sort of accidental revisionist history so thoroughly.
In osis, spin and scoop go together like beans and cornbread, like strawberrys and shortcake, like corned beef and cabage, like liver and onions, like bagels and lox, like biscuits and gravy, like bread and butter, like hotcakes and molasses, like peas and carrots, like chocolate and peanut butter, like peanut butter and jelly.
Scoopy osis is good. Scoop gives style. Look at alot of different people doing consecutive osis -- some are too scoopy -- they have bad form -- what shows is how they are often reaching and struggling to hit their osises. On the other hand, some people are on the opposite end of the spectrum -- they have almost completely eliminated any scoopyness from their osis, and their form looks bad in a different way -- technically, their form is fine, and they are in complete control, but, the moves just look mechanical and very unstyly. I see otherwise great players with consecutive osis like this and I keenly hope my osis does not look like theirs. Best osis at least a modest scoop to them.
Its a shame more of you haven't seen lots of footage of Dave Holton shred. He had very scoopy osis -- probably too much by even a fairly tolerant standard - but I loved the way they looked.
One problem with scoopy osis is mostly that they are the only way that very poor players can hit them at all. People see an osis with lots of scoop and they think -- BAD Osis!. But, its not really the scoop that makes them bad, its just that they're seeing somebody who is, over-all, bad at footbag. Good footbag players with scoopy osis have the best osis. Good players can do osis with way too much scoop, but usually only when they are trying to prove some point and are deliberately trying to show an example of a very bad osis -- its not really the scoop that makes their examples so bad, its that they are also deliberately trying to use ONLY scoop while completely eliminating spin from their demonstration. This is bad just like trying to use all spin and deliberately trying to eliminate all scoop is bad. Best osis use spin and scoop together. Perhaps more spin that scoop, but they still use some scoop together with their spin.
One more point regarding the whole issue of "osis as a spin" -- yeah, osis has a spinny element to it, but, keep in mind, osis was osis before osis was defined as a move containing a "spin" element. This is to say, there was this behind-the-back-clipper trick called osis well before all footbag moves were systematically broken-down into the "move categories" that were arbitrarily determined to make up all moves. Several broad move categories were invented (dexterity, delay, body, cross-body, unusual surface) to aid in defining freestyle moves, scoring moves and competitions, and to aid in the pursuit of new combinations of move-elements to help invent new moves. This is to say, osis wasn't invented to be a spin, osis was, long after invention, later defined as demonstrating the move category of "spinning" because, in order to define osis it had to be labeled with as demonstrating/containing some of the same move-categories as other freestyle moves, and "spinning" was a conveniently broad label for it. One could say that the "spin" in osis is somewhat analogous to the "dexterity" in a cross-body rake. We all know that a cross-body rake, be one definition, is a "dexterity" move (along with "cross-body" and "delay"), but just because it meets this one sort of definition, nobody really mistakenly believes that one's leg must actually circle around the bag in mid-air in order to properly perform a cross-body rake. Similarly, just because one definition of osis says that there is a "spin" performed in an osis, one does not need to take this 100% literally and say "because the definition of osis says it contains a spin, than any way of of doing an osis that is not 100% dependant on spinning is wrong, and any sort of movement that does not meet a literal definition of spin, cross-body, and delay must be absent from a properly performed osis". It would be absurdly dogmatic to say such a thing, and one would also have to be willfully naive to fall for this sort of accidental revisionist history so thoroughly.
In osis, spin and scoop go together like beans and cornbread, like strawberrys and shortcake, like corned beef and cabage, like liver and onions, like bagels and lox, like biscuits and gravy, like bread and butter, like hotcakes and molasses, like peas and carrots, like chocolate and peanut butter, like peanut butter and jelly.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Interesting Jon. It seems like there is maybe a definition difference between older skool and newer skool players. I have heard that "osis" is based off a freestyle frisbee trick, which indeed isn't so much of a spin as a carry. I think there's a bit of a values difference between our two opinions though. I like crisp "clean" style, and scoopy osis look "sloppy" (I put "clean" in inverted commas because I don't really mean to use those terms in technical footbag language, more like the difference between say Ryan Mulroney's style and Lon Smith's style - both of which are technically clean, but Ryan has precision while Lon is more organic - I hope this makes sense 
).
The thing about scoopy osis too is that they're much harder to play out of. When you see hard osis trick>hard trick combos, there's usually hardly any scoop. Scoopy makes it easier to hit a hard osis trick, but harder to play out of.
). The thing about scoopy osis too is that they're much harder to play out of. When you see hard osis trick>hard trick combos, there's usually hardly any scoop. Scoopy makes it easier to hit a hard osis trick, but harder to play out of.
Osis
Set>>Spin>Delay
Gyro Clipper
Set>Spin>>Delay
Where the >> is the peak of the bags arc.
Just like Stepping far Clipper and Drifter.
So obvious it hurts. Even the cleanest osis peaks before you complete the spin. Gyro is obviously supposed to 'spotted', and the 'spot' is supposed to happen around the time the bag peaks.
Set>>Spin>Delay
Gyro Clipper
Set>Spin>>Delay
Where the >> is the peak of the bags arc.
Just like Stepping far Clipper and Drifter.
So obvious it hurts. Even the cleanest osis peaks before you complete the spin. Gyro is obviously supposed to 'spotted', and the 'spot' is supposed to happen around the time the bag peaks.