Okay I need to rant here so I don’t go off on the thread on Facebook.
What’s up with Honza’s new video? I’m a little bothered by all the positive feedback it has received. I guess I'm not surprised though.
Don’t get me wrong the women in the video are beautiful and very talented dancers however the way they are portrayed is pretty offensive. I had to go back and rewatch the video because I missed the footbag in it the first time. I was actually so distracted by the dancers that I didn’t see what tricks he hit!
Not only that but what’s with the weird female rivalry in the video? As if two women can’t be portrayed in a video without fighting over a guy. Give me a break.
I honestly think that the video would have been better if Honza was completely eliminated from it. The dancing was more interesting than the footbag. The footbag was overshadowed and the women were objectified.
This is a step back for women in footbag. Yeah it might get more views but so what? I don’t think the presence of women in this video will actually encourage anyone new to take up the sport. It certainly will not encourage any women to start playing.
What a narcissistic load of crap.
Cass shreds - Spring Training 2024
Feminine Freestyle
I agree completely. I like Honza, but in addition, this may have been the first footbag video Ive seen where I felt like an outsider watching and thinking that footbag looked pretty lame.
Actually the most interesting part for me was the studio apartment they were in.
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Actually the most interesting part for me was the studio apartment they were in.
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F[uns]tylin' Eclectic
- Post Master General
- Posts: 4092
- Joined: 05 Feb 2010 19:53
- Location: Drumore, PA
Re: Feminine Freestyle
My thoughts exactly.Cassy wrote:
What’s up with Honza’s new video? I’m a little bothered by all the positive feedback it has received. I guess I'm not surprised though.
I thought that was corny and actually laughed when I saw that.Cassy wrote:
Not only that but what’s with the weird female rivalry in the video? As if two women can’t be portrayed in a video without fighting over a guy. Give me a break.
Still with you 100%. The dancers tricks were harder and more interesting than Honza's, to be honest.Cassy wrote: I honestly think that the video would have been better if Honza was completely eliminated from it. The dancing was more interesting than the footbag. The footbag was overshadowed and the women were objectified.
Yep. I actually wish the girls learned like, toe stalls at least instead of FUCKING CATCHING THE BAG WITH THEIR HANDS. That made females look stupid and weak, like they can't do anything nearly as cool or difficult as the guy in the middle.Cassy wrote: This is a step back for women in footbag. Yeah it might get more views but so what? I don’t think the presence of women in this video will actually encourage anyone new to take up the sport. It certainly will not encourage any women to start playing.
What a narcissistic load of crap.
All I can say is...Muffinman wrote:I like Honza, but in addition, this may have been the first footbag video Ive seen where I felt like an outsider watching and thinking that footbag looked pretty lame.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTL0xjuV-fA[/youtube]
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Thanks for the comments guys. I was feeling really alone on this one so it's good to know that not everyone is oblivious.
And lol at the video Nick. You would think he would come up with more interesting concepts for his videos given the production quality. What's with the Hummers and fur coats? At least the women in his most recent video did stuff and weren't just there as props to look pretty. Last I checked footbag groupies are a pretty rare breed.
Such chauvinism. Wow.
And lol at the video Nick. You would think he would come up with more interesting concepts for his videos given the production quality. What's with the Hummers and fur coats? At least the women in his most recent video did stuff and weren't just there as props to look pretty. Last I checked footbag groupies are a pretty rare breed.
Such chauvinism. Wow.
Re: Feminine Freestyle
I actually like both videos, they are art. If you want to discuss the role of men/women in art, good luck.
He got paid, they got paid, they made a video, it's nice to watch. By elaborating on it, you're only putting emphasis on the problem that isn't even there.
If you want footbag videos to be different, why not make one and show him how things should be done? Without disrespect, I think that would create a better example for future videos than an article on a blog telling everyone you think the video is sexist.
If you think the combos are too easy, try playing in those trousers.
He got paid, they got paid, they made a video, it's nice to watch. By elaborating on it, you're only putting emphasis on the problem that isn't even there.
If you want footbag videos to be different, why not make one and show him how things should be done? Without disrespect, I think that would create a better example for future videos than an article on a blog telling everyone you think the video is sexist.
If you think the combos are too easy, try playing in those trousers.
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.
Vojta
Vojta
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Because you know you're wrong? 
Hi I don't know who you are but thanks for crashing my blog and completely missing the point.
I realise that the women in the videos are being paid to do a job. That's fine, I have no problem with dancing or modelling. I take issue with those who produced the video. The way that footbag and these beautiful women were portrayed in relation to footbag was unfortunate. It makes it look as if women aren't actually capable of shred, they are simply a side act for the boys with the skills.
The whole video is about making Honza look good. There is no way he is being portrayed "in a bad way". These women are fighting for his affection. Sure they give up and "shoot" him at the end but the whole idea is kinda bogus.
My issue with this video is the fact that it does not portray footbag or women in a good light. People complain that not enough women play and obviously there are a lot of reasons for that. But when women see videos like this there's no way they are going to think "hey, thats awesome I could do that!" or if they do then it would be about the dancing and not the footbag.
I just think this is poor publicity for the sport because as I said before the dancing actually distracts from the footbag skill. I didn't even pay attention to the footbag when I watched it. How is that good for the sport?
Hi I don't know who you are but thanks for crashing my blog and completely missing the point.
I realise that the women in the videos are being paid to do a job. That's fine, I have no problem with dancing or modelling. I take issue with those who produced the video. The way that footbag and these beautiful women were portrayed in relation to footbag was unfortunate. It makes it look as if women aren't actually capable of shred, they are simply a side act for the boys with the skills.
The whole video is about making Honza look good. There is no way he is being portrayed "in a bad way". These women are fighting for his affection. Sure they give up and "shoot" him at the end but the whole idea is kinda bogus.
My issue with this video is the fact that it does not portray footbag or women in a good light. People complain that not enough women play and obviously there are a lot of reasons for that. But when women see videos like this there's no way they are going to think "hey, thats awesome I could do that!" or if they do then it would be about the dancing and not the footbag.
I just think this is poor publicity for the sport because as I said before the dancing actually distracts from the footbag skill. I didn't even pay attention to the footbag when I watched it. How is that good for the sport?
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Why do you keep editing your post?
If you haven't noticed I chose to post this in my blog instead of making it a big issue on the facebook group. I'm entitled to my opinion and I have every right to discuss that in MY blog.
I actually didn't really think it was nice to watch. I don't need to apologise for discussing a video that I take issue with.
I'm pretty confident I could hit most or all of those combos in pants. If you haven't noticed I have put out a number of videos however I don't have the cash to put into a fancy, well produced video.
If you haven't noticed I chose to post this in my blog instead of making it a big issue on the facebook group. I'm entitled to my opinion and I have every right to discuss that in MY blog.
I actually didn't really think it was nice to watch. I don't need to apologise for discussing a video that I take issue with.
I'm pretty confident I could hit most or all of those combos in pants. If you haven't noticed I have put out a number of videos however I don't have the cash to put into a fancy, well produced video.
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boyle
- Post Master General
- Posts: 3183
- Joined: 19 Sep 2007 23:42
- Location: Canberra, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Feminine Freestyle
I think it's definitely more "show" than "shred". It's something a bit different. But to expect girls to take up playing footbag through a video like that, is to expect girls to take up rapping through some of "dancers" in those videos...
I'm sure in his circus acts at some stages Jorden (and others) have done similar sort of performances, and that's the whole thing, is it's about performance. I don't really think it is a step back, or forward, or anywhere for women in footbag. The way more women are going to be playing is for people like you, Hania, Caroline, Tina, etc, etc to be playing, and girls getting positive real life reinforcement.
I don't really know if the video will get more views either - of Honza's videos, only the other one that was posted (with the fire etc) has a serious amount of views. While probably only the "freestyle" audience will watch...it's something a little different. The ending is not very good and the "storyline" is fairly weak. I wonder if Honza works with a "creative director" or anything....these are the kind of guys who like to do more or less the same thing over and over again, and if it's easy for them to throw in some models or dancers, that's what they'll do.
Of videos with footbag in the title, there is one from Felix with more than a million views, and then the "footbag beauty" one also has close to a million views. You have to wonder what kind of effect that has had on female players over the years.
I think Honza could definitely have added some harder tricks in there though. I think that the video would not be a deal maker/breaker for many people to take up playing.
The big question is...when will you put out a video with two blokes fighting for your affection...
I'm sure in his circus acts at some stages Jorden (and others) have done similar sort of performances, and that's the whole thing, is it's about performance. I don't really think it is a step back, or forward, or anywhere for women in footbag. The way more women are going to be playing is for people like you, Hania, Caroline, Tina, etc, etc to be playing, and girls getting positive real life reinforcement.
I don't really know if the video will get more views either - of Honza's videos, only the other one that was posted (with the fire etc) has a serious amount of views. While probably only the "freestyle" audience will watch...it's something a little different. The ending is not very good and the "storyline" is fairly weak. I wonder if Honza works with a "creative director" or anything....these are the kind of guys who like to do more or less the same thing over and over again, and if it's easy for them to throw in some models or dancers, that's what they'll do.
Of videos with footbag in the title, there is one from Felix with more than a million views, and then the "footbag beauty" one also has close to a million views. You have to wonder what kind of effect that has had on female players over the years.
I think Honza could definitely have added some harder tricks in there though. I think that the video would not be a deal maker/breaker for many people to take up playing.
The big question is...when will you put out a video with two blokes fighting for your affection...
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Story of every event I have ever attendedboyle wrote:
The big question is...when will you put out a video with two blokes fighting for your affection...
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Re: Feminine Freestyle
I kept editing because I didn't want to create a flamewar, I am a rationally thinking person and as such, I am often classified as 'chauvinistic' by people who claim that word on everything they see.
The video is about the synergy between two sports. They found a guy who can play footbag and two girls that can dance, if they found a girl who can play footbag and two guys who can dance, they'd probably do it that way. The video might not point the attention towards footbag, but it definitely doesn't show footbag in a bad light. It's just a fun video Honza has made in between all the other videos that put footbag in a great light and do us all a favor.
I think he is the last person I would criticize for placing a bad light onto footbag, but you still could if you want. Just make sure you do it when the video is actually bad for footbag, not neutral and innocent like this one.
If you think it portraits women badly, that is heavily subjective. I would actually argue otherwise. I've been doing sports for a decade, a lot of different ones, too. To be honest, if you go to a skatepark or a football pitch, in 90% of cases, guys are doing a sport and girls are watching them play it. Hence, I like all videos where girls are good at a sport and it doesn't matter if its dancing or footbag.
Dancing like they do takes a lot of practice, it's a sport dominated by girls skill wise and that for me is a very pleasant to know.
The video is about the synergy between two sports. They found a guy who can play footbag and two girls that can dance, if they found a girl who can play footbag and two guys who can dance, they'd probably do it that way. The video might not point the attention towards footbag, but it definitely doesn't show footbag in a bad light. It's just a fun video Honza has made in between all the other videos that put footbag in a great light and do us all a favor.
I think he is the last person I would criticize for placing a bad light onto footbag, but you still could if you want. Just make sure you do it when the video is actually bad for footbag, not neutral and innocent like this one.
If you think it portraits women badly, that is heavily subjective. I would actually argue otherwise. I've been doing sports for a decade, a lot of different ones, too. To be honest, if you go to a skatepark or a football pitch, in 90% of cases, guys are doing a sport and girls are watching them play it. Hence, I like all videos where girls are good at a sport and it doesn't matter if its dancing or footbag.
Dancing like they do takes a lot of practice, it's a sport dominated by girls skill wise and that for me is a very pleasant to know.
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.
Vojta
Vojta
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Interesting read here, but I doubt this video will have much effect.
I've played for 10 years now, and in those 10 years, I've tried to get more then hundreds of people to play that where somewhat interested (people walking by while I shred outside, showing videos to friends, or co-workers that wanted a new exercice, doing demos in schools a couple of times and more) and the result is quite low. A couple came to sessions too, but the sport is so hard that most people just give up after a short time if they actually try playing, and that is our real problem.
I feel your toughts in some ways, but the reality is that close to nobody will start playing because of watching only one specific video.
The question is, if this is the first footbag video someone as to watch, will he/she want to see more? I hope this won't have a negative effect because it will surely be seen many times over time.
But after watching it a second time and trying to judge it as if I was someone who did not play footbag, my overall feeling was that it was just play self-promotion.
As far as getting more women in the sport, or getting videos to encourage them, just keep posting videos of your shred, it can only help IMO, keep doing your thing!
I've played for 10 years now, and in those 10 years, I've tried to get more then hundreds of people to play that where somewhat interested (people walking by while I shred outside, showing videos to friends, or co-workers that wanted a new exercice, doing demos in schools a couple of times and more) and the result is quite low. A couple came to sessions too, but the sport is so hard that most people just give up after a short time if they actually try playing, and that is our real problem.
I feel your toughts in some ways, but the reality is that close to nobody will start playing because of watching only one specific video.
The question is, if this is the first footbag video someone as to watch, will he/she want to see more? I hope this won't have a negative effect because it will surely be seen many times over time.
But after watching it a second time and trying to judge it as if I was someone who did not play footbag, my overall feeling was that it was just play self-promotion.
As far as getting more women in the sport, or getting videos to encourage them, just keep posting videos of your shred, it can only help IMO, keep doing your thing!
Mathieu Gauthier
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Yeah realistically this video isn't going to mean anything for the sport. I fully realize that. It's just the principle of the matter
I didn't really mean for this to be a big deal. I was just a little bothered by it and wanted to get it off my chest. My main point was actually just the fact that the dance distracts from the footbag so I don't think that this is a very effective promotional piece. It's not that it portrays women in a poor light. I just find the use of women for promotional purposes to be distasteful and distracting.
I didn't really mean for this to be a big deal. I was just a little bothered by it and wanted to get it off my chest. My main point was actually just the fact that the dance distracts from the footbag so I don't think that this is a very effective promotional piece. It's not that it portrays women in a poor light. I just find the use of women for promotional purposes to be distasteful and distracting.
Re: Feminine Freestyle
You could see it as Honza being used for promotional purposes of dancing. I didn't mean to make this a big issue neither nor disrespect anyone, it's just that I know Honza personally and he's the one who brought many people including me to the sport.
Since he makes his living by shreding, videos like this will appear every now and then. But until they present harm, I would just enjoy them for what they are.
Since he makes his living by shreding, videos like this will appear every now and then. But until they present harm, I would just enjoy them for what they are.
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.
Vojta
Vojta
Re: Feminine Freestyle
I know him personally also. I don't think dancers need a footbag player to promote their work. As I said before I think the video would have been improved by removing footbag all together.
Please stop telling me not to express my opinion in my own blog. As one of a handful of female players I think I have the right say what I think. I don't really care if you agree.
Please stop telling me not to express my opinion in my own blog. As one of a handful of female players I think I have the right say what I think. I don't really care if you agree.
Re: Feminine Freestyle
yeah that video didnt have enough fire in it to be cool. The hand claps were good though
this is where i see our sport is headed
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-IIvmocX6Q[/youtube]
this is where i see our sport is headed
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-IIvmocX6Q[/youtube]
Re: Feminine Freestyle
First off, I'm really new to this sport. I couldn't name tricks or anything, but I like watching the videos 'cause it looks cool. I'm not super athletic so I just appreciate it really.
Cass sent me that video to watch, completely without comment. My first thought was, "Yay, using women as props, how artistic."
I agree that I'm sick as shit of seeing women exist in something to fight over a dude, or to be used a props to make a point.
I think if it were really about fusing dance and footbag, there could have been more use of the dancers, rather than that one shot of their legs as obstacles. Dance requires a lot of physical discipline and rhythm, and I seriously doubt that it would have taken that much time or effort to teach those ladies a few tricks to actually get them involved as people, rather than as objects.
Also, I disagree to what that one person said, that by being critical of this we are creating a problem that doesn't exist. Obviously it does exist if I picked up on it immediately. Telling us to sit down and shut up about our criticisms makes me wonder why a lot of people call you a chauvinist. If that's a common thing, maybe you should look to yourself as the common factor there.
I'm sure everyone involved in the video is proud of their work and I don't devalue that for them at all. However, I don't think art is above criticism just because there wasn't a misogynistic intention. You have to view things critically as a consumer or audience member and not just blindly accept everything people present to you.
I have a lot of respect for people who can do things I can't, footbag included. I'm not trying to denigrate anybody. I just can't enjoy casual misogyny.
Cass sent me that video to watch, completely without comment. My first thought was, "Yay, using women as props, how artistic."
I agree that I'm sick as shit of seeing women exist in something to fight over a dude, or to be used a props to make a point.
I think if it were really about fusing dance and footbag, there could have been more use of the dancers, rather than that one shot of their legs as obstacles. Dance requires a lot of physical discipline and rhythm, and I seriously doubt that it would have taken that much time or effort to teach those ladies a few tricks to actually get them involved as people, rather than as objects.
Also, I disagree to what that one person said, that by being critical of this we are creating a problem that doesn't exist. Obviously it does exist if I picked up on it immediately. Telling us to sit down and shut up about our criticisms makes me wonder why a lot of people call you a chauvinist. If that's a common thing, maybe you should look to yourself as the common factor there.
I'm sure everyone involved in the video is proud of their work and I don't devalue that for them at all. However, I don't think art is above criticism just because there wasn't a misogynistic intention. You have to view things critically as a consumer or audience member and not just blindly accept everything people present to you.
I have a lot of respect for people who can do things I can't, footbag included. I'm not trying to denigrate anybody. I just can't enjoy casual misogyny.
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Hey Cassy,
We understand your viewpoint. Please DON'T stop sharing your opinions on these subjects. They are important to hear.
I think your lens is a bit different than the producer of that video, whether it be Honza or someone else (didn't bother to check. lol).
For me, I saw the roarin' twenties and a "peering into the looking glass" of what relations between the sexes used to be like.
Besides the modern skill thrown in, I didn't see any other implications of today being represented. The setting is theatrical and the players
are actors and actresses. Imagine if nobody was allowed to play "oppressed" characters anymore. Would theater perhaps cease to exist?
In historical contexts, it's probably best to show things the way they once were.
If this were set on today's street, I agree, it would be pretty bad. But look at the Fast and Furious movies, the NFL or "Pro" Wrestling. The marketers are trying to target their core audience of men. Luckily the women in this new Honza video were fully clothed.
As the old saying goes, women are sex objects and men are success objects. Whether or not this notion holds strong today, I certainly feel it. Despite juggling/footbag world championship titles, having performed in Europe the past couple years, and having lived more than most people, I'm still ashamed to enter the dating world. The type of gal I'd be looking for would not be impressed by my life on paper - no car, renting out some guy's basement and an annual income that would impress nobody. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the pendulum does still swing both ways in many cases.
As always, be the change you want to see in this world. You certainly won't change Honza (I happen to know this guy pretty well
).
If you don't like women being misrepresented, represent yourself the proper way. Lead by example.
This is one of my favourite quotes: "Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power." — Lao Tzu
Jorden
We understand your viewpoint. Please DON'T stop sharing your opinions on these subjects. They are important to hear.
I think your lens is a bit different than the producer of that video, whether it be Honza or someone else (didn't bother to check. lol).
For me, I saw the roarin' twenties and a "peering into the looking glass" of what relations between the sexes used to be like.
Besides the modern skill thrown in, I didn't see any other implications of today being represented. The setting is theatrical and the players
are actors and actresses. Imagine if nobody was allowed to play "oppressed" characters anymore. Would theater perhaps cease to exist?
In historical contexts, it's probably best to show things the way they once were.
If this were set on today's street, I agree, it would be pretty bad. But look at the Fast and Furious movies, the NFL or "Pro" Wrestling. The marketers are trying to target their core audience of men. Luckily the women in this new Honza video were fully clothed.
As the old saying goes, women are sex objects and men are success objects. Whether or not this notion holds strong today, I certainly feel it. Despite juggling/footbag world championship titles, having performed in Europe the past couple years, and having lived more than most people, I'm still ashamed to enter the dating world. The type of gal I'd be looking for would not be impressed by my life on paper - no car, renting out some guy's basement and an annual income that would impress nobody. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the pendulum does still swing both ways in many cases.
As always, be the change you want to see in this world. You certainly won't change Honza (I happen to know this guy pretty well
).If you don't like women being misrepresented, represent yourself the proper way. Lead by example.
This is one of my favourite quotes: "Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power." — Lao Tzu
Jorden
Jorden Moir
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Thank you for bringing this up, Cassy. I definitely agree with you and felt the same when watching it.
Verena Lenneis
Re: Feminine Freestyle
It's pretty silly that the guys don't listen to the only girls who voice their opinions about it... If there were 30 female footbaggers commenting on it and only a couple were incensed that might be different. It's one thing to turn off potential female players, but to turn off the few that already play...? And then dismiss their concerns...
Re: Feminine Freestyle
Yeah no kidding Erik..
I am glad this has generated some discussion at least. Thanks to those friends that have voiced their opinion.
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I am glad this has generated some discussion at least. Thanks to those friends that have voiced their opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk