Ask permission?

sen · Post by **sen** » 15 Sep 2004 06:30

Should a filmmaker ask permission before they film someone? Should they ask permission to use the footage in a video?

This post was inspired by the Tomass DVD thread.

Sergey · Post by **Sergey** » 15 Sep 2004 06:40

I think it's ok not to ask before you film someone, but when it comes to putting the footage online I think it's better to ask.

I voted NO.

mc · Post by mc » 15 Sep 2004 06:46

I think it would be polite and respectful of filmers to inform the circle they're about to be taped unless there's objections, especially being that it only takes a second to do so.

I think that videos, especially free ones available for download, have really catalyzed the explosion of freestyle talent around the planet, and I have a hard time sympathizing with high-level players who don't want to be taped. At least not too many people seem to have a problem with it. I consider it an honor and a privelege to be taped and made available to the world in videos. I would expect whoever's filming to use some discretion and not put footage of me doing something drunkardly at an after party in their video, but if I'm shredding, I'm game to be taped.

edit: and if a taper tapes you, I think it's assumed that it could make it to a public video. They shouldn't have to ask permission both to film and to use the film. I voted Yes.

AIvanyo · Post by **AIvanyo** » 15 Sep 2004 11:47

I said yes. I think sometimes you need to ask, other times you dont need it. Like if you were going to post it online, you should ask. But if you want to record something for yourself (like spectators, or newbies in amazment) then you don't need to ask.

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 15 Sep 2004 12:12

if your in a public place than you dont need to get permission legally, but it would still be nice to ask.

the Executioner · Post by **the Executioner** » 15 Sep 2004 12:34

Having dealt with this issue my entire career I'm glad this thread came up.
In my professional opinion, if you are filming for yourself to watch in the comfort of your own home, then you can get away with not asking permission, although asking would be a polite thing to do.
If you are filming and plan on posting footage online then I think it would be appropriate to ask the players if it's ok if you put them online, although you could probably still get away without asking. I think most players would appreciate being asked, although I'm sure most players won't mind having their footage being posted. Keep in mind that there may be exceptions.
If you are filming, and plan on putting that footage on a film that you plan to SELL, then by all means it is your duty to ask. If you are selling a video that features a player, than the LEAST you can do is to offer that player a free copy of the video. All the major video producers (Ellis, Chad, Fred and Max, ect.) have the decency to do this.
You can imagine how offensive it would be if someone was selling your combos without your knowledge, and when you ask them for 1 copy of the tape they say no. It has happened too many times.
If the sport ever gets big, this could be a legal issue; but beyond that it's just a simple matter of courtesy. Players will appreciate and respect you
if you offer them that basic level of courtesy and respect.

Post by **Allan** » 15 Sep 2004 13:41

I couldn't have said it any better Pete

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Sep 2004 14:25

See the Executioner's post above, it explains my view quite well.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 15 Sep 2004 15:29

It only makes sence to ask permission after the video is finished when you know what runs and combos they have.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 15 Sep 2004 15:52

the Executioner wrote: You can imagine how offensive it would be if someone was selling your combos without your knowledge, and when you ask them for 1 copy of the tape they say no. It has happened too many times.

That is JACKED!!!. ALWAYS OFFER A FREE COPY to the shredders!!!!!

Although Sunil is a dope ass mo fo and insisted on paying even when i offered a video for free.. He made me take the money once

.. Sunil is the man...

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 15 Sep 2004 23:03

First off, props to Sen for starting this thread. The other ThomASS thread really got hijacked bigtime.

wicked wrote:It only makes sence to ask permission after the video is finished when you know what runs and combos they have.

I disagree. For some people, just being filmed affects how they play. Personally, I often feel inclined to step up my level of play if I`m being filmed. But for others, being filmed makes them feel uncomfortable. I know that some Shreditas don`t like being filmed, because they can find it `creepy.` When people film Vasek, their motivation for filming isn`t suspect. People film Vasek because he busts insane with a footbag. But when people film Isabelle Widmer`s routine at Worlds 2003 and zoom in on her ass... well, its understandable why Shreditas may not feel comfortable getting filmed. Are you filming me because you want to show the world the level shreditas have reached? Or are you filming me because you want to record my cleavage when I bend over to pick up the bag?

Unfortunately, Shreditas HAVE been exploited in this way, presented in an overly sexual manner without their permission, and on major footbag sites. It`s not easy for guy shredders to really understand this. The closest thing for me was playing footbag in Washington Square Park in NYC. Washing Square is located in an area of Manhattan with lots of gay people. Sometimes during the summer when we would shred there, guys would take photos of us, with our shirts off, without our permission. Personally, this made me feel a little weird. If they wanted to see me shred, cool, but I didn`t want people going home and masturbating to my abs. If they went home and masturbated to blurriest BSOS, that would be OK though.

I can also easily imagine other situations where players wouldn`t want to be filmed. I personally think that all the sweaty, shirtless guys on footbag videos creates a needless barrier to getting girls into the sport. If you show a footbag video to a girl, invariably one of her first observations/questions will be: `why doesn`t anybody wear a shirt?` Because of this, I make an effort to play in a shirt whenever I am in public, and especially if I am being filmed. I`m comfortable with people seeing my body in public, but for the sake of making the sport appear more professional and accessible, I try to always appear on videos wearing a shirt. If its too hot for a shirt, I will play without one, but I WOULD refuse to be filmed.

Then there is the case of people wanting to keep things secret. At Prague Worlds, I was in a circle with Sunil and Rippin,` and Sunil showed us a `secret set.` Now, if somebody filmed the circle without his permission, and he never noticed them filming, and video of that was released, he`d be rightfully pissed. Asking permission of players gives the player the choice to keep things secret, or to show off something new.

Frankly, asking permission to film takes no time or effort, and creates a better vibe between cameraman and shredder anyway. Considering how there obviously are players who have issues about being filmed without permission, why WOULDN`T you ask for permission?

mohkale · Post by **mohkale** » 16 Sep 2004 01:05

How about if someone is already filming, should you still ask for players' permission? Perhaps this is obvious, but competitions can be filmed without permission, right? I'm referring to net, in pool play when there are no spectators, I think its polite to ask for a permission. But, lets say in Worlds finals, I bet Manu doesn't want to be disturbed by dozens of guys asking for his permission.

Matti

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 16 Sep 2004 01:22

^^^see thats the thing most theze guyz walk into a circle your already filmin then they want you to ask permission. Im totally against askin permission in any form unless there iz money involved.

C-F If a girl waz busting hardcore you know they wouldn't be filmed with "sexual intentions" you would just want them for tha runs. If not, whoz gonna throw them on a vid anyway?? Girlz aint in vidz cuz they dont bust that hard so why doez it matter if they get filmed? You say people presented them sexually but i have NEVER seen this (where is it?)

And oh yea why you so big on this topic cuz ive never seen you in a video besides some online shit cuz your talkin for alot of people...

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 16 Sep 2004 01:32

C-Fan wrote: II personally think that all the sweaty, shirtless guys on footbag videos creates a needless barrier to getting girls into the sport. If you show a footbag video to a girl, invariably one of her first observations/questions will be: `why doesn`t anybody wear a shirt?` Because of this, I make an effort to play in a shirt whenever I am in public, and especially if I am being filmed.

Damn thatz some truth right there. My friends would always talk shit when i showed them freestyle vids cuz of that.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 16 Sep 2004 01:36

C-Fan wrote:First off, props to Sen for starting this thread. The other ThomASS thread really got hijacked bigtime.

wicked wrote: Then there is the case of people wanting to keep things secret. At Prague Worlds, I was in a circle with Sunil and Rippin,` and Sunil showed us a `secret set.` Now, if somebody filmed the circle without his permission, and he never noticed them filming, and video of that was released, he`d be rightfully pissed. Asking permission of players gives the player the choice to keep things secret, or to show off something new.

Im totally not down with this philosiphy.. Look at all those crazy moves vasek was trying in the monsterhack vid sorcery101.. He dont give a funk if anybody see it cuz hez sick like that.. that secret shit iz waked. Do you really think vasek hides in a corner when he makes shit up?

B_Man · Post by **B_Man** » 16 Sep 2004 07:09

wicked wrote:Do you really think vasek hides in a corner when he makes shit up?

Probably, until he has hit the set so that he has the right to name it and gets the credit for thinking + busting it. Then it's all about publicity

Quite frankly, I wouldn't want to think of a set I know I could hit but then have someone else hit it before I do just because someone was filming my attempts and showing it off on the internet.

It's like walking up to a restaurant and taking someone else's food without their permission

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 16 Sep 2004 08:47

Damn footbag paparazzi

jon · Post by **jon** » 16 Sep 2004 11:38

imho always ask permission before filiming and btw no one owns a set or a trick so it is impossible to steal them

sen · Post by **sen** » 16 Sep 2004 11:44

jon wrote:imho always ask permission before filiming and btw no one owns a set or a trick so it is impossible to steal them

That may be true but it is possible to steal the glory or pride of hitting/naming a new set or trick.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 16 Sep 2004 15:48

wicked wrote: ^ Im totally against askin permission in any form unless there iz money involved.

After reading this, I really don`t see the point in me posting anymore. Either you didn`t understand my entire last post, or you don`t respect people`s right to not be filmed when they don`t want to.

Still, I decided to post, just to point out some major flaws in your arguments, and to answer some of your questions.

wicked wrote:^
C-F If a girl waz busting hardcore you know they wouldn't be filmed with "sexual intentions" you would just want them for tha runs..

That`s crap, and you know it. Did you see the vid of Isabelle Widmers routine from worlds last year? It`s a great routine, and the play itself is videoworthy. Yet the cameraman keeps zooming in on her ass. It is QUITE obvious that she wasn`t filmed, and then posted on the internet, `just...for tha runs.` Or watch `The Sickening.` Carol W. busts really well on that video, and her play alone is videoworthy. But why is there a shot of Carol stretching, doing a split? She wasn`t aware she was being filmed like that, and wasn`t happy she appeared on video that way.

wicked wrote: If not, whoz gonna throw them on a vid anyway?? ..

Abshire, Holton, Chad back in the day... girls who don`t bust will appear on video if they are wearing a bikini and do a toe stall. And the fact that some videos have portrayed random women in such a sexual way doesn`t give Shreditas any reason to believe that they are being filmed `just for tha shred.`

wicked wrote: You say people presented them sexually but i have NEVER seen this (where is it?) ..

Random women being presented sexually for no reason is on a ton of videos. Shreditas being presented sexually is at least on The Sickening, which was a major release. And Shreditas being presented sexually has appeared on the internet, most notably in the Widmer clip I keep referring to.

wicked wrote: And oh yea why you so big on this topic cuz ive never seen you in a video besides some online shit cuz your talkin for alot of people...

What`s your point? The only people I have been talking for are some shreditas I have talked with who feel strongly on the issue, and myself. How many times I have been on video doesn`t have any impact on the relevance of my opinion on this topic.

As for videos I`ve been on, you should check out Sick 03, cause its really good. I also make small cameos on crappier videos, like Whirled Shred.

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