Worst Shorthand Names

General footbag-related topics that don't fit elsewhere go in here.
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Derek
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Worst Shorthand Names

Post by Derek » 19 Aug 2020 05:38

Who the fuck came up with calling ss Atomic sets “tapping”, when a trick, tap, already exists? Has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

If I hit Tapping Legover, that’s Atomic ss DLO, not Atomic ss Leg.

Understand this may apply to Blazing, and Slapping, but I don’t know much about those. Either way, super bunk. And the fact everyone has seemingly gone along with it is so utterly gross.


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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by boyle » 22 Aug 2020 23:22

Are we talk just shorthand for sets, or general nicknames as well. Backside smear is maybe not the best of names.

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by Tjuggles » 23 Aug 2020 13:15

Derek wrote:
19 Aug 2020 05:38
Who the fuck came up with calling ss Atomic sets “tapping”, when a trick, tap, already exists? Has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

If I hit Tapping Legover, that’s Atomic ss DLO, not Atomic ss Leg.

Understand this may apply to Blazing, and Slapping, but I don’t know much about those. Either way, super bunk. And the fact everyone has seemingly gone along with it is so utterly gross.


Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
I wonder if one of them (e.g., chicken) came before the other (e.g., egg), and that is why it is what it is? I have tried to collect information about the etymology of things like this but it is difficult. If we find out, let's post it here!
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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by boyle » 23 Aug 2020 19:32


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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by C-Fan » 23 Aug 2020 19:55

Derek wrote:
19 Aug 2020 05:38
Who the fuck came up with calling ss Atomic sets “tapping”, when a trick, tap, already exists? Has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.
I can shed a bit of light on things. Way back in the day sets didn't exist, so these problems didn't exist. When tricks involving sets first started popping up, people didn't think of them as "set + downtime component." That was partly due to the fact that a lot of the early sets weren't as distinctly uptime as they are now. Early blurs and legbeaters were done almost midtime really. So a trick like legbeater was not thought of as "uptime set followed by downtime butterfly," but more like a single trick that was its own distinct whole. The first tricks that started down the path of indirectly describing a set, were "blurry tricks." Old school players only used the designation for tricks that were stepping- opposite in out dex tricks like blurry whirl. That's because it had to be like the actual trick blur, but finishing off with a different component. So a trick like bedwetter wouldn't be blurry...they'd almost describe it as "blizzardy" egg. For this reason, stepping same side tricks were given their own names instead of being called simply "blurry."

The explosion of set names really came in the late 90s and early 2000s. I'd say between mid 1998 and mid 2000 really. If you wanted to blame a single person, you'd probably want Eli Piltz. In his defense, a lot of sets needed names and by identifying and naming them it made people consider tricks they may not have otherwise. I think where things went overboard was when they started giving 2 sets of names for the same set, based only on whether the next component was same side or opp (which I believe is your original complaint). Here' I'd probably point to Sunil and Eli as the biggest culprits. I also think around this time people got a bit overboard with naming rare sets that are used and seen so infrequently (e.g. symposium reverse whirling, backside frantic, etc.) that their technical names are probably more useful than some weird name you need to look up.

Hope that helps some.

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by Derek » 24 Aug 2020 04:47

Dan: Any term that you find very.... odd, would be the criteria. Backside Smear is a top one. Though, I personally refuse to use terms like “backside”, and “frontside” for similar reasons. Ooh, I remember those threads. Good reads.


TJ: When in doubt, Ken it out.


Ken: That’s fantastic. My vendetta went from general, to personal. Piltz, what a fool! Haha. Now I don’t feel as bad trash talking that ‘Unbearable’ video, or whatever it’s called. Get it as a beta phase, but how we haven’t hashed it out since is kinda baffling. And I also seem to be the only one with this issue. Was quite helpful and informative, thanks.





This Week’s Episode: DLO

More specifically, the full term, Double Legover. Anytime I hear the full term out loud, I cringe. Miraging Legover somehow turns into 2 Legovers, even though the motions are opposite each other. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Imagine whomever came up with DLO was doing the trick Symposium, and with both feet together. While that would be slightly understandable..... still dumb, dumb, dumb. Then, the actual DLO, DSO, is called Toe Reaper until Ianek comes up with Switch, then DSO? When I find out things like this, makes me not hate on Freestyle Fútbol names as much. With their 7 million ATW variations.
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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by boyle » 26 Aug 2020 05:54

There have been various threads on this very forum talking about the DLO - I think for sure this has been a hot topic (in reality now people just DGAF - there are so few people playing that it doesn't really matter). But this has certainly been an ongoing one. Because a DLO is certainly not a double of the legover trick (mind you a double switch over, some people call say pixie legover, pixie switch), it's not a double of that either.

The only real difference with freestyle football is that it would have been called the IATW - not that he was the first one to do it, but he came up with the name, so he names his version of the basic (around the world) trick.

One project I do have in mind though is to make a match to the freestyle football/footbag tricks, but I don't know if there is some kind of comprehensive guide of freestyle footbag tricks with any kind of similarity to jobs notation.

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by cammel » 04 Sep 2020 15:14

I am also upset that double legover is not the base name for OUT>same OUT>same Toe.

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Blurriest is a bad name too

Post by C-Fan » 05 Sep 2020 15:35

I agree that DLO is maybe the worst offender in terms of being straight up misleading/incorrect. I also feel some annoyance at tricks like blurrier and blurriest. They were undoubtedly hard tricks when they were named, but they've been surpassed by so many other tricks which are faster...how can stepping barfly be "blurriest" when people have literally added 2 extra dexes to it?



boyle wrote:
26 Aug 2020 05:54
in reality now people just DGAF - there are so few people playing that it doesn't really matter)
This.

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by SlashC » 15 Apr 2021 00:46

Derek wrote:
19 Aug 2020 05:38
Who the fuck came up with calling ss Atomic sets “tapping”, when a trick, tap, already exists? Has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

Thank you for coming to my Tappity Tap Tap Talky Talk.
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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by boyle » 18 Apr 2021 02:15

Nice skills Rory! Though I couldn't help thinking of this...

Image

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by C-Fan » 18 Apr 2021 22:35

SlashC wrote:
15 Apr 2021 00:46
When can the rest of us buy the new Quantums?

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by Jorden » 21 Nov 2022 09:14

I would say the worst footbag trick names are the ones that make the most common demographic of new players (let's say males, age 13 to 25) self-conscious and embarrassed. That would be weak fruity sounding names like pixie and fairy. Butterfly is borderline, as term has been used successfully in other skills (swimming, contact juggling, etc.).

People complain about lack of new players, but at the same time aren't making a listing of reasons players resist pursuing freestyle and working towards eliminating that resistance.

The immature overly sexual names like clownface, frothy walrus, your mom, your sister, GYBAS, etc. prevent future institutions and television networks from ever taking the sport seriously. Forget sponsorships as well.

I think less of a "democratic" vote, and more of a forward-thinking common-sense approach (i.e. what the descriptive system attempted but was a little too aggressive and fast-moving on) that would make the sport more accessible to both new players and spectators alike is needed.

Let's face it, footbaggers by and large HATE change. Even if it means the sport falling off a cliff. Sad.
I get Europe and South America has a hard enough time memorizing complex English names, but there needs to be leadership on this issue.

You'd want the trick systems to be so simple that anyone with a backwards hat and social status can study footbag for a week, then hop on a broadcast and be a co-announcer for a televised footbag event. The youth care very deeply about what products and activities are associated with.

Derek, I would argue every intermediate and above isn't struggling with what "tap" is. They know what DLO is.
Both issues are solved with the descriptive system anyway. "Atomic near mirage" and "mixer".

Footbag's number one problem will ALWAYS be obscurity. It's only 2 letters away from the world's most popular sport. A sport worth BILLIONS of dollars. Footbag not only looks like a misspelling of football, but also is perceived as a derivative product by the public. Derivative works almost always get mediocre results compared to the original.

If you were a young teen, would you gravitate towards the possibility (however slight) of being wildly rich and world famous, or potentially putting the same amount of work in and still needing to work a day job , but having the opportunity to make 100 people smile online? :P

Footbag needs a name change. It also needs a simplified descriptive system. If the sport doesn't capitalize on the Gen Z wave of adults, it simply won't survive.

JM
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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by acxel22 » 23 Nov 2022 12:03

Well Ianek did the descriptive system so long ago, but not many adopted it.

People hate changes sadly, not helping.

I think we already jumped off the cliff, we are only still in the downfall stage
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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by Jorden » 23 Nov 2022 14:20

Yeah, I was an advisor to the Descriptive System.

Footbag is just too many things to too many people. A cooperative kids' game, a skill toy, a fun way to kill time after getting stoned, a meditation, a way to get in shape, means of artistic expression, a performance art, a competitive sport, etc. Push it too far in any one direction and people rebel though.

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Re: Worst Shorthand Names

Post by Robin1 » 28 Feb 2023 02:55

In particular, the full term, Double Legover. I cringe every time I hear the full term. Even though the motions are opposite, Miraging Legover transforms into two Legovers. Dumb, stupid, stupid. Assume whoever came up with DLO was pulling a Symposium, and with both feet together. While that is somewhat understandable, it is still dumb, dumb, dumb. Then, until Ianek comes up with Switch, then DSO, the actual DLO, DSO, is called Toe Reaper. When I learn things like this, I don't hate the names of Freestyle Football as much. They have 7 million ATW variations.

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