Zeke's Random tips and thoughts about sqwerz

1, 2, 3, 4. Keep that bag off the floor.
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Zeke's Random tips and thoughts about sqwerz

Post by Zeke » 22 Oct 2007 10:32

This is more or less notes to myself in hopes of making a larger, more organized & comprehensive post. If it helps anybody along the way, then cool. If not, then I'll get over it.

-Pass low. EDIT>>> more<<< airtime gives defenders more time to react.

-Kill the king. Don't let that player rack up any points.

-Use Body & knee defensively. Maximum coverage with minimal effort.

-Your CSI re-enactments are a waste of time. At no point have I EVER changed my vote when someone else shows me where they saw the bag peak or land. Just shaddup and point! Damn you Lane Tech! DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN YOOOUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Zeke on 12 Nov 2007 09:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Zeke's Random tips and thoughts about sqwerz

Post by quadgun » 22 Oct 2007 19:28

Zeke wrote:-Your CSI re-enactments are a waste of time. At no point have I EVER changed my vote when someone else shows me where they saw the bag peak or land. Just shaddup and point! Damn you Lane Tech! DAAAAAAAAAAAAMN YOOOUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
I used to like arguing and making up fake stories all the time to get people out.
But when I do play now, I don't do it as much.

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Post by Zeke » 23 Oct 2007 10:14

-Study the way your opponents play. Being able to anticipate them is a tremendous advantage offensively and defensively.

-Many players don't want to be kicked. Take advantage of that.

-Stay alert defensively, ALWAYS expect the bag to come flying into your square.

-Don't be passive on defense either. Don't just watch and hope the footbag won't land in your square. Go for every shot. How many times has the bag landed in one of your corners or have had dinks land right freakin' in front of you and thought to yourself, "Fuck! I should have went for that!"? Eliminate as many of those kind of errors from your game keep yourself in the court more often, instead of the back of the line.
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Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by QuantumBalance » 23 Oct 2007 13:52

enter the 4 square

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Post by Zeke » 26 Oct 2007 09:15

Frank_Sinatra wrote:Never give up on defending a bag - you might get lucky.
Word.
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There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 29 Oct 2007 18:10

-Learn to guard your kicks with your arms.

-Steal the bag from people who don't guard.

-A solid and reliable power shot is good to have. Not necessary, but still useful.

-Co-op screening works SSSSSSSOOOOOOOOO well.
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Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 12 Nov 2007 11:17

-on Defense, there's rarely any reason to be waiting for the footbag in the back half of your square. You leave yourself wide open to short passes (dinks). I'm always surprised at how many new players will play so deep in their square. Generally, playing anywhere from the midpoint to the front half of the square is a good start while constantly making adjustments to where the bag is being played.

-a defender's lunging toe dig that pops the bag straight up are great set ups for power shots that target the back line or corner. If the defender is in a particularly deep lunge with the right foot, try to blast the footbag past his right side aiming for the back of his square. Since most of his weight is on the right leg, it will be difficult to shift his weight off that foot to try and use it for the save.

-a defenders lazy outside kick can set you up for a sole push. If you notice that a defending player consistently places the bag within your range after an back or outside kick use a well timed sole push to attack their back line. The ideal time is moments after the footbag leaves his foot. More often than not, their head will be turned to the bag and will not be expecting your foot to flash right past them. It's easy to spike downwards so swing the leg upwards (not straight forward) with your toes pointed back towards you and your heel is out.
Last edited by Zeke on 14 Nov 2007 06:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Asmus » 14 Nov 2007 04:33

This thread is awesome!

Thanks for the tips Square Guru Zeke!

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Post by Zeke » 14 Nov 2007 10:11

8)

-I personally think that a good defense will get more wins than a good offense.

-Much thanks for the seasoned competition veterans of Montreal for this next part. For comps, the ideal situation is a preliminary round of several pools of 4-7 players. The first player to 15 points steps out of the game and advances while the rest of the players keep playing to see who gets 15 points next. Depending on how many pools you have 2-3 players from each pool advance to finals. 4-6 players in finals is perfect.

-I like having judges on each perimeter line but only to help with calls and fouls. The rules are already set up so that players can settle things by voting and hack-offs. Judges are there to help that process move along and should not be the overall authority in my opinion. Judges are far more crucial in 2-square where voting is almost useless. Judges should be volunteer spectators familiar with the rules or players from other pools as a last resort. They should not be players currently waiting in line.

-Keep in mind that this is just a guide to help anyone who's never run a comp to get an idea of where to start. We've had to make many compromises and changes at the last minute due to time contraints.

-Speaking of time, games where the talent ranges from newb to master assassin (READ:KILLS AT WILL) can last from 5 to 15 minutes. Games where talent is around the same level will last longer, maybe half an hour or even up to 45 minutes if the competition is really fierce. Be sure to account for the arguing and game stopping laughter that's guaranteed to ensue. For every 15 minutes of gameplay, add 5 minutes of nonsense.
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Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 16 Nov 2007 18:26

joecrain wrote:Over in the hack-offs 4S thread, discussion has appropriately begun about voting within 4S (all hack-offs usually begin from a tie or failure in the voting system.) But the topic of voting is too large to keep under the other thread so I am starting a new one here.

Voting in 4S is core to the fundamental philosophies it was built on:

People have different opinions, we should respect them all.
In 4-square, every player is a judge. This idea is roughly taken from the sport of ultimate (flying disc or frisbee (TM)). (Please read item 2 under the introduction, "Spirit of the game"). As a judge it is your job to truthfully represent your opinion during a game of 4S. It is also your job to respect the opinion of others. There are definitely times when differences of opinion cause an 'innocent' to be penalized, but remember its not capital punishment, its just a trip to the end of the line.

The politics of social interaction silently rule 4S.
Political skill should never be under-estimated. Your ability to convince people to agree with you is sometimes going to get you further in the game than using fancy footwork. Every little action will influence your popularity in some way. In the end the player with the best combination of public image and foot skill will be victorious. **Please note that this is one of the biggest points of contention for players who dislike 4S ("You shouldn't be able to win using strongarm tactics"). So for all of you out there in this camp, please let it be known that I4C, The International 4-Square Committee, is now in its formative stages and one of its primary functions will be the creation and standardization of an offshoot branch of 4S dubbed "Prosquare" and this will be a refereed sport with NO VOTING.

What goes around comes around.
If you argue alot and make voting calls that are seemingly irresponsible, people will try harder to get you out. (Steve Goldberg understands this principle more than anyone, but he has the skills to back it up) Also, sympathy can be a powerful ally in 4S. If you get out because of being picked on during a vote by a corrupt server and 1 or 2 of his/her cohorts, other people will help you out with your cause eventually.

It takes clean, well placed passes to win.
Half-ass attempts to win by using shanks, near-spikes, and ridicolous low shots should looked down upon by everyone, including yourself if you try to pull one. This is *especially* true when you are serving game point. To go for the win, the final ultimate point, your kill must be undenyably perfect. Any gray area shots should be considered an attempt to walk away victorious from an election where the polls were electronically rigged in your favor from the beggining. In my opinion, if you create disagreement when serving for game, you should just step out and try harder next time.

Ok now that ive attempted to exert my political power, lets hear what people think about voting in 4S...
I fully understand that politics and intimidation are parts of the game as well but I've grown to like decisive outcomes based on pure kicking skill. I love 2S with Tom and Reile because the calls are minimal and wins are truly earned against each other. There have been many instances at Lane Tech where I've been totaly cheated out round after round on questionable shots because of their blatant abuse of votes (often 5 players vs. me) but still get the win. How is it possible to win 6-square when everybody votes against you? It's the forth point that Joe mentions in the quote above. If everyone sees that your pass clearly had arc and peaked well above the knee and lands in bounds far enough from any lines then you've damn near eliminated any doubt that would cause anyone to vote against you, or to even start a vote for that matter.
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Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 17 Nov 2007 11:03

Tony, one of the 4S players here, believes that because we play on my 16x16 foot court with 8 foot squares that we will land more shots out of bounds when we play on a regulation sized 14x14 court. That, in turn, leads to more trips to the back of the line than extended reigns in King square. He may be right to some degree. If a player has poor control of the bag, little to no sense of his position in his square and his offense relies mostly on wild digs and passes that are lobbed high above the court into random squares, then Tony has a valid point. Smaller squares will hurt that player.

But if a player has a great touch with the bag, excellent court awareness and knows how to pick his shots then he can be effective in any size/shape court he plays on. Personally I think bigger squares makes you a better defender. You really have to learn to utilize effective positioning and flat out hustle to keep the from being killed. I think a good exercise is to play a game where only aces count as kills on big courts.

That 16x16 court was meant to be donated to the Lane tech footbag club as soon as I made a regulation sized replacement for CIC sessions. The "squares" on the concrete court they play in are pretty big. Never did get to that replacement.
Last edited by Zeke on 03 Dec 2007 18:49, edited 1 time in total.
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The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Guest_1 » 28 Nov 2007 11:12

I thought the voting system was meant to be abused :oops:

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Re: Zeke's Random tips and thoughts about sqwerz

Post by Zeke » 03 Dec 2007 11:30

I wrote:-Pass low. EDIT>>> more<<< airtime gives defenders more time to react.
Allow me to elaborate on this. Obviously, your pass still has to peak at or above the receiver's knee for it to be fair. What I meant in the tip is to limit the number high arcing "easy" shots that you give. Don't make anything easy for your opponents

Concentrate on passing about waist level most of the time and change it up when you see fit. For example, pass high when the sun will be in the receivers face. Shoot the bag ridiculously high if you know the defender is a poor kicker (you would be surprised at how many experienced kickers you can kill with this). Give a high arcing lob to their weak or non existant back kick.

One good reason to give an easy pass is to set you up for a snake or a powershot. If you notice that they kick the bag to a spot within your range after they have defended a certain easy pass, give them that same easy pass then look to quickly redirect the bag right as it leaves their foot.
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Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 31 Dec 2007 23:09

It takes clean, well placed passes to win.
Half-ass attempts to win by using shanks, near-spikes, and ridicolous low shots should looked down upon by everyone, including yourself if you try to pull one. This is *especially* true when you are serving game point. To go for the win, the final ultimate point, your kill must be undenyably perfect. Any gray area shots should be considered an attempt to walk away victorious from an election where the polls were electronically rigged in your favor from the beggining. In my opinion, if you create disagreement when serving for game, you should just step out and try harder next time.
Perhaps I should have re-read this before NYJ. I was getting a lot low and spike calls which players watching from the sides would later tell me was bullshit. I struggled in prelims from all the calls against me (to be fair, I was being outplayed too) and could not get my rhythm going. I managed to finally win my pool but was so dehydrated and exhausted after. Can't blame anyone else for that but myself.

I really didn't want to do finals that same night but we just went ahead and did it anyway. The fatigue and the constant arguing got to me and I walked out in the middle of the game. They were more than generous to let me back in after my little break but I knew I had given up any chance of being competitive so I just played for the sake of playing. I was the lowest scoring player in finals with 9 points I believe.

As for the foul calls, I tried not to argue much about it and just stood there and pointed (to vote) and accepted the outcome. If all they saw of my Sweep & Screen was the bag just a few inches above the ground as it dropped just past the line then they have every right to vote it as a low pass, if that's all they saw. If they think my front corner dink from my back line was a low and/or spike then they have every right to vote it as such. I knew while I was developing these shots that they were borderline legal but I was still overwhelmed by all the complaints.

It is not my intent to win by cheating and constantly using bad shots. There are plenty of experienced players here that understand the rules and they would never let me get away with a shitty shot. Specially shots that I use all the time. If they say the shot is bad, than I adjust. If I can't adjust then I just don't use it. But that's got nothing to do with what people see on the courts and ultimately that's what matters most.

I think what bothers me about it all was that I had put in a lot of work over the past year to get better and I felt like I was being labeled a cheater instead. I'm really trying not to let it gnaw away at me, cuz after all it's just a game, right? Trying. I was able to take out most of my frustrations during the Mirken bag 6-square challenge. That could arguably be my best performance ever. I felt so good afterwards about playing unrestricted so hard for so long.
I wrote: After award ceremonies on early Sunday afternoon, I announced that all interested participants gather near the prize table. I think like 18 players came up! So in an attempt to thin out the crowd I said that any one who had already won a prize through competitions were not able to compete. I think that eliminated all of 2 people. My second stipulation was that you had to be a freestyler and you would actually play with the bag. I would prefer that it not sit in anyone else's collection.

So with the players set, I announced that it would be a modified game of 6 square where I was always in king square and the winner of the bag had to ace me an x amount of times. Most players only had to ace me twice and the better players had to ace me 5 times, I believe. An ace is where a pass lands cleanly and uncontested in another players square without the defender ever touching the bag. The perfect kill IMO. I had to be in the court the whole time so any player that killed me (that wasn't an ace) resulted in me staying in ksq while re-serving to that same player. If I fouled someone, that player would automatically get a hack off. Any other player that got killed would go to the back of the line as normal. Steve happily judged from the sidelines but the players were encouraged (thanks Emily) to vote first and to vote fair. No lying, no whining, no CSI re-enactments (God, I hate those!), just point. If you didn't see the play, don't vote. So that's basically what I came up with to be fair to all the players that participated. I'm sure there a were a few flaws to be fixed and some tweaks to be made if I really put in more time to think it through.

The flow of players in & out of the court and gameplay moved quickly but lasted somewhere from 30-45 minutes. Probably boring for everyone else but it was definately wearing me out as the game went on. I was a nasty, sweaty waterfall after only a few minutes into it. I could have easily played cheap and gotten some kind of contact on any inbound shots to get killed instead of aced but I went all out on defense to try and get control of the pass to set myself up for something.

If it seemed I was making an extra effort to kill you and get you the hell off the courts, please take that as my deep respect for your skill. I was determined to keep my bag and favored absolutely no one to win. The general strategy was to remove any major threats as soon as possible. If I was unable to kill you within a few volleys then I targeted an unsuspecting square to get a quicker kill and conserve as much energy as I could. At one point, I got 'in the zone' and I was in a long stretch of consecutive kills with no re-serves or hack offs. Sometime in the middle of that, Al had showed up and was trying to talk to me but I was so focused I didn't even know he was directly behind me.

I managed to get a few sips of water in between rounds to keep hydrated, but to be honest & and at the risk of sounding like an arrogant ass clown, the growing frustrations on peoples faces really kept me going. I savored all the eye rolling, the dropped shoulders and the shaking heads as you found your way to the back of that long line. I was particularly energized by reactions after any spectacualr kills or saves. I utilized just about everything in my arsenal; axe kicks/sole shoves, snakes, double taps, flying knees, powershots, self-screens, kick fakes and dinks to keep that line moving. I even invented a shot on the fly that got some good reactions. On the flip side, I was equally disapointed with myself for every fould I commited, and every time I was killed or aced. I tried to stay focused and kept pushing myself to play as well I as I could. No one was just going to walk off with my bag.

Eventually Matthieu won (Read: EARNED) the Mirken off me. Hope it was worth me (gently :oops: ) kicking you in the face! Much thanks and love to all of you that participated, it just shows how valued Jeremy's footbags are that y'all would all put up with all my bullshit to play for that bag. Props to anyone that killed me and much props to anyone that aced me that day, that's probably the best I've ever played for that amount of time.

Thanks again for all that played, you all helped to make that my absolute favorite moment of NYJ 07.


Keep playing squares!
Zeke
Beat Steve in a single game of 2-square early during the event. I lost count of how many times he won. I didn't play against him much until the last night in the shred room while there was a group dinner in Chinatown. No scores. We just played 2-square forever. It was SSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



--Evan is my Kryptonite. Just about every counter in the courts led me to the back of the line.
--Ben & Matt Cross are two of my new favorite players.
--Cale is a good partner. He laughs at all my jokes.
--Introduced spin rule and roulette
--More people playing squares this year

So, just as in previous years, I get my ass whooped in 4-square. But that just means I have a reason to push myself to be an even better player for next year.
Zeke

Funny movie titles if the movie were about poop:
Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 08 Jan 2008 10:50

Know the rules. It makes the game less frustrating.
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Funny movie titles if the movie were about poop:
Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by professor » 08 Jan 2008 12:17

Zeke your kill shots are the most ridiculously good shots I've ever seen. You truly look like a professional square player when you play.

In fact, everyone in Chicago is silly good at squares.
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Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong.

No, I don't play soccer. Yes, there are competitions. 4 years. Lots of practice.

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Post by Zeke » 10 Jan 2008 11:32

:D Thanks. I've got some tweaking to do, though. They need to be more viewer friendly. If I can't win any votes, then some of those shots may as well be the spikes they're accused of being. Oh, it's going to be a fun year...

I was so happy to see so many people playing squares at this year's NYJ. I hope it's a trend that continues.

During the last night in the shred room, I tried to give away as many unclaimed prizes as I could. Two of the more entertaining games to watch were Spin Rule and Roulette. Steve and I laughed & watched spin rule while we were taking a break from 2S. I personally hate playing with this rule but love to watch. Just the sheer silliness of it all helped to take some tension off the fact that they were playing for a shirt. I'm genuinely amazed at the people that can play virtually unaffected by all the spinning. I get dizzy after only a few spins and I feel like vomiting after extended reigns in king square.

Roulette was another good game. This was probably the closest in terms of point spread. In a game to 15 points for a black on black Kolo Sport shirt (SEXY), no player had fewer than 12 when the game was over. In roulette, each square is assigned a different rule. The player killed from a particular square determines the rule used in the next round. Another version uses different types of kicking objects instead of rules. I used a slightly different variation of this for the black shirt. This time each person was assigned a different kind of footbag. When a player is killed, his bag is used for the next round. To try and level out the playing field, newer players were assigned something that was hard to control while better players were given objects that were easier to play with. In theory, that would discourage targeting the new players in favor of killing the better ones.
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Funny movie titles if the movie were about poop:
Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by Zeke » 26 Jan 2008 10:02

Control.


Control is everything. It's the one crucial element that all the different footbag games and disciplines have in common for a player to be successful (or even just competent). A good set in net can set your partner up for his best spike, blasting the bag just out of reach and into the ground. In freestyle your sets have to be consistent to flow easily from one trick to the next. Hack circles try and get the bag to everyone in the circle as many times as possible. Even in the game KILL (ugh) you have to kick the bag a certain amount of times before being able to nail someone with it.

Squares is no different. I've found that whomever controls the bag the most has the best chances of advancing/winning. You need control to keep playing after a near impossible dig from a bad position. You need control to walk the bag away from possible snakes or just being able to keep kicking the bag after your hand has been kicked trying to block snake attempts (I'm getting good at that). You need it to set up shots and finally send them exactly where you need the footbag to go within an occupied 7 foot square.
Zeke

Funny movie titles if the movie were about poop:
Red
Fast & the Furious
The Green Mile
Children of the Corn
There Will be Blood

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Post by CIC flurry » 27 Jan 2008 08:22

Years from now Zeke's post will be put in a hall of fame for people to reference when learning to play and advancing in skills @ squares.

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Post by MikeTelevision » 05 Feb 2008 09:39

Hey what's up guys!? Haven't talked to you in a while and just thought i would say thanks for introducing me to the squares. I've already got some guys who wanna play so all i have to do is make a square setup. Anyway much respect to CIC and i miss the hell out of playing with you guys. Tell everyone i said what's up.

Abe

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