[Moved:] Personal argument

[Jeremy]

[Split from an off-track thread. -Moxie]

Care to suggest an alternative course of action that

a: hasn't been tried
b: would bring success at the task of reducing / eliminating the nuisance posts that Kyle makes
c: is less petty and childish and with a grander perspective?

He bothers me, and I want him gone. I've read your last post and I don't see where you're coming from.

I suppose anyone could play the "petty, childish, and small-perspective'd" card on anyone getting into an argument or series of arguments with someone who argues and conflicts in an unreasonable way on a hacky sack forum, but, in response I would have to play a 10-foot-tall "pot blatantly calling the kettle black" card.

You are the king of conflicts with unreasonable people (and maybe even king of the unreasonable people himself) and I don't see how you can overlook your own track record of conflict with certain members of this forum for long enough to criticize mine. You have argued way more fervently with many more reasonable and unreasonable people on this forum than I.

I want to send out some hacky sacks to rid myself of a forum member that I don't like. You went out and bought greater than your own height in canned soup in response to a forum argument. How do you have time to even worry about what I write while you're eating all that soup?

Do you think this is my first attempt at trying to reconcile this situation? Do you not see my offer as a less-than-desirable, late-in-the-game, tried-everything-else resort?

ug... I can't get over that pot-calling-the-kettle-black part of this... You calling me (or anyone) out for having less-than-ideal conflict resolution skills, or for engaging in less-than-ideal arguments, is laughable.

petty and childish? this from the "start an online account and write to me in the form of a letter to the editor of a newspaper of my choice, or I'll ignore you and disinclude you from my world record list" guy.

Any other useful and astute comments you'd like to make, you wonderful genius you? I don't know what we'd do around here without you to keep us in line and remind us of how flawed and less than jeremy-like we all are.

I'm upping my offer to 10 bags for you to never post here again, Jeremy. Kyle, you still only get 5.

I heard that Kester's got arguing with you down to a science - he calls you a c*nt until you submit. I'm gonna have to try that next time.

1. Me buying those cans of soup was a joke and I don't have any expectations that Dan will actually pay me any money when I win that bet. It was amusing and didn't actually cost me any money. This is obviously different to volunteering to send somebody 10 free bags.


2. I'll accept your offer, once I've received 10 bags from you I'll never post on modified again.


3. As for an "alternative course of action" - hit the "ignore" button on one of Kyle's posts and don't click on topics that Kyle has started. I have 3 or 4 people on "ignore" and I don't even notice that they post.


4. You've misquoted my comment about sending letters to the newspaper. What I said was that if you had a criticism of the list and hadn't made any kind of contribution to the list (ie. posting records, offering to help etc.) then I'd only respond if you sent it as a letter to the editor of my newspaper. Again, like the soups, this was a joke, and I later made that clear.

While I agree that in both cases these could be seen as childish jokes, I still find the soups one amusing and it created much enjoyment at the time, and neither of them cost me any serious amount of time or effort. On the other hand while your offer is funny, it's funny because you're prepared to go to such an enormous effort. It's funny because you care so much about somebody like Kyle Hewitt, who would be best described as "irrelevant." It's funny that you're apparently prepared to spend 30 hours stitching (or however long it takes you to make a bag) so that I don't post any more (although I strongly doubt you'll follow through).

The reason I say you have a small perspective on life is because you're prepared to go to such a ridiculous amount of effort to get people you don't like to leave this forum. While I can only really speak for myself, I'm fairly sure Kyle doesn't put in any effort into this forum, and I barely do either.

Perhaps this is the reason I find your actions so difficult to understand - because I don't feel like I have anything invested here, while apparently it's very important to you. I post to have a break from studying or previously when I was procrastinating at work.

So I look forward to receiving my 10 free footbags in the mail. Obviously I expect them all to be an acceptable quality, rather than rushed or less than 32 panels. If I don't get them, I'll be able to laugh at your inability to keep your word, and if I do get them, I'll be able to laugh at how much you care about trivial issues, as well as the fact that I got 10 free footbags as a reward for annoying somebody on an internet forum.

[mc]

awesome.

3-4 days worth of stitching to never have to read your particular brand of bullshit and the bullshit you so magically bring out of other people is more than worth it to me.

Usually, I make heavy bags, but because it's international shipping of a bunch of bags, I'm going to make them 35 grams each. if you want them heavier, I'm sure you know how to add weight to bags.

[Jeremy]

35 grams is too light. I'm not cutting open 10 bags to add weight to them.

Between 45 and 55g thanks.

[Kyle Hewitt]

im not irrelevant

[WyrmFyre]

Once again, I feel it goes against my better judgement to get involved, and perhaps im sticking my nose in where it doesnt belong, but god dammit Jeremy, I dont know what it is about you but you have this way of really getting on my f**king nerves.

While I can only really speak for myself, I'm fairly sure Kyle doesn't put in any effort into this forum, and I barely do either.

Whatever. I reckon you have the highest word count per post across this entire forum. Your posts, though intelligently written, are generally very long affairs, especially in such instances where you feel you are the one in the right and the rest of the world is wrong. You do put effort in, you have to, you have to keep track of where you are in the arguement, er, topic, you have to research your facts, and probably scan through hundreds of back posts jsut to make sure there can be no comeback from what you have just said. You dont jsut split hairs, you break them down to their molecular components, then tell the molecules how wrong they are and how bad that makes them.

Obviously I expect them all to be an acceptable quality, rather than rushed or less than 32 panels.

Matt Cross does not strike me as the type of peson who woud make a sub-standard bag even if he was sending them to his worst enemy... which is the case here.

If I don't get them, I'll be able to laugh at your inability to keep your word, and if I do get them, I'll be able to laugh at how much you care about trivial issues, as well as the fact that I got 10 free footbags as a reward for annoying somebody on an internet forum

Thus, you have created a situation where you win either way, like anyone really gives a s**t. What do you want, a medal? Pat on the back perhaps? You didnt strike me as the type for such playground antics.

Jeremy, you strike me as a very intelligent man. You carefully consider facts, and analyse and research information before making your own judgements on any given situation. SOME of what you post makes for interesting reading, such as your recent topic Home. However even within that topic there are moments where once again you try to initiate conflict

Given your apparent grasp of evolutionary theory, and probably of reality as well, I'd suggest reading a high school text book or pop science book.......

Who do you think appears to have a stronger moral grounding?

In fact, that bt just about sums up my experiences with you for me. You enjoy.. no... you thrive on conflict. You need it. You need to argue the toss, you need to belittle people, point out their flaws, insult their intelligence because somehow, it makes you feel better about yourself as a person. I dont know how you are the way you are, perhaps your experiences at school were not all that good and now the internet has given you a way to be the bully.

I tolerate you as I do any village idiot, you are unfortunately part of the modified furniture. If you left, I wouldnt put it past you to start an alter ego on here anyway, and continue your reign of making people feel shity about theyre life choices, arguing over trivial pointless matters, turning posts around that are nothing to do with you and making them about yourself, or just out and out offending them. I think the idea of calling you a c*nt until you submit is a great one, one i may have to adopt every time i get a hint that your ego is outgrowing your head.

I don't know what we'd do around here without you to keep us in line and remind us of how flawed and less than jeremy-like we all are.

Id play footbag, and you Jeremy, 10 bags richer but lots of what could have been potential friends poorer, would be forgotten in an instant.

[Zac Miley]

The canned soup picture was my desktop background for a while.

[mc]

no more angry stuff, please thanks for the support, Ian. Jeremy and I have come to an arrangement with which we're both happy. Or, at least I am.

I can't believe that this thread has resulted in me getting rid of someone who's even more abrasive to me than Kyle.

[androo]

We can all learn something from this picture

[Jeremy]

Whatever. I reckon you have the highest word count per post across this entire forum. Your posts, though intelligently written, are generally very long affairs, especially in such instances where you feel you are the one in the right and the rest of the world is wrong. You do put effort in, you have to, you have to keep track of where you are in the arguement, er, topic, you have to research your facts, and probably scan through hundreds of back posts jsut to make sure there can be no comeback from what you have just said. You dont jsut split hairs, you break them down to their molecular components, then tell the molecules how wrong they are and how bad that makes them.

You're confusing putting effort in to the issues to putting effort in to modified. If you look through all the topics I haven't posted in - that's because I either don't care about that topic, or don't feel like I'm in a position to be able to contribute anything because I don't know much about it. I write a lot because I like writing and because the topics where I write a lot are ones where I have some interest. Believe me, there are plenty of places where I can write stuff about things I'm interested in.

Thus, you have created a situation where you win either way, like anyone really gives a s**t. What do you want, a medal? Pat on the back perhaps? You didnt strike me as the type for such playground antics.

Jeremy, you strike me as a very intelligent man. You carefully consider facts, and analyse and research information before making your own judgements on any given situation. SOME of what you post makes for interesting reading, such as your recent topic Home. However even within that topic there are moments where once again you try to initiate conflict

I'm just amazed Matt cares so much that he's prepared to go to so much effort.

You're entitled to your opinion. I would argue that I care about truth, and when I see something that isn't true, I can't help but say so. I'd also argue that in most cases I'm not the one who instigates the conflict, but just respond to it.

Given your apparent grasp of evolutionary theory, and probably of reality as well, I'd suggest reading a high school text book or pop science book.......

Who do you think appears to have a stronger moral grounding?

In fact, that bt just about sums up my experiences with you for me. You enjoy.. no... you thrive on conflict. You need it. You need to argue the toss, you need to belittle people, point out their flaws, insult their intelligence because somehow, it makes you feel better about yourself as a person. I dont know how you are the way you are, perhaps your experiences at school were not all that good and now the internet has given you a way to be the bully.

Go read that topic again. A guy who I've never spoken to, or even was aware existed comes out of nowhere and posts this (which isn't even about the topic being discussed).

This is so funny, I had to point this out. You are all for the death of thousands of people that don't think the same way as you do, yet you are so concerned about the death of thousands of unkown people at the same time. Wouldn't it be great if the guys you would like to use as fertilizer were the ones dying from people eating meat. Unless your concerned of being one of those affected by the people eating meat. That could never be true, because that would mean that you were looking out for your own interest and we all know that is a no no.

Also, aren't you some crazy atheist, survival of the fittest type guy. How does sacrificing something of your own interest for the sake of others play into survival of the fittest? You must have stopped evolving at some state huh.

By the way, I haven't seen this video yet, I don't really know if eating meat is really good or bad, and I am not an evolutionist.

He's saying that because of my religious beliefs I should be immoral and only care about myself. If I went in to any topic and told a person they whatever they were talking about meant that they were completely selfish and immoral how do you think they'd respond? When somebody attacks me like that, I think we all know that it's inevitable that I'll respond in a negative manner, at least in the context of an internet forum and a guy I've never met.

I don't know what we'd do around here without you to keep us in line and remind us of how flawed and less than jeremy-like we all are.

Id play footbag, and you Jeremy, 10 bags richer but lots of what could have been potential friends poorer, would be forgotten in an instant.

I think it's fair to say I've become fairly bitter about modified over the years, because the vast majority of people on this forum do absolutely nothing positive for the sport apart from playing, and I don't know why.

I've always judged people on their actions, not their words and here you see hundreds of people talking about how great footbag is, but not prepared to put any effort into promoting or building the sport.

I already have plenty of friends in footbag. I get on well without almost every person I've played with, and these days footbag is only a tiny part of my life anyway.

Somebody told me once that they don't post on modified, or about what new tricks they're hitting because it's just masturbation. That was one of the few people I've played with in footbag who I don't get on that well with, but who is clearly somebody who is all about actions over words, and so I have a lot of respect for them, and in this case I think they're right.

[WyrmFyre]

*sigh* Im not going to continue with THAT side of this topic any further beyond this post. I feel you and me are probably gonna turn out to be as stubborn as each other and we'll just be going round in circles, so i shall extend my hand to you and call for a truce.

With regards to this however

...because the vast majority of people on this forum do absolutely nothing positive for the sport apart from playing...

Sometimes playing is all you need to do. You cant force people to play. If i see a group of people my age playing football in the park, ill ask to join, and I think the same will be true once I start to play footbag publicly myself. The UK jam is being held in my home town and I have asked all my friends to at least come and watch, there is absolutely no compulsory participation ( although it will be encouraged ) and I tell them that if nothing else, its a day at the beach.

We're up against it more so in the UK as there are very very few of us, but that is a hurdle I intend to cross. My current aim is to have two or three organised footbag events in the UK next year, more if possible, and make them annual events attended by players from over the globe. I live on a seaside resort, and the beach and not-too-short-shorts go togehter very well not to mention that we get holiday makers from all over the country. One location, many ways to reach out.

Heck, our nearest city, Skegness, has already played host to national volleyball tournaments amongst other beach-y type sports, so I say, why not footbag?

I dont think ill make my mark on this sport by busting out 5 adds at will, and I talk of competing one day but I HIGHLY doubt ill ever win anything, unless you dish out wooden spoons for most consecutive drops in a single routine. Being tiltless is all I want out of footbag on a personal level. I think the way for me to make my "mark" on this hobby will be in the organisation and promotion of footbag events in the UK. To look upon a group of 30 freestylers and net players, all UK born and bred and to say "I had a part in bringing these people together" will give me as much pleasure as hitting any 5 add you care to name.

And before you say it, yes, I do know you speak of the majority of the members as you put it and not just me, but im pretty sure that at some point along the line, everyone on this forum will have had the "Whats a footbag?" conversation, and though they may have been asked several hundred times will no doubt answer the question with a level of enthusiasm. It is then up to the other party to make a decision as to whether to play or not, we cant force them.

Now, having completely derailed this topic beyond all hope of ever returning to the original subject, Id best get back to work.

[C-Fan]

35 grams is too light. I'm not cutting open 10 bags to add weight to them.

Didn't you used to make bags? Get a straw and some filler. I don't know if you made your post because you are greedy or because you just wanted to be a dick, but you should know that you don't have to "cut open" bags to add fill.

Oh, and if you ever feel like paying me the $200 you took out of my Nestle paycheck without my consent, my paypal is kensomolinos at yahoo. Feel free to add four years of interest if you like. Just thought I'd mention it before you leave.

[Zjeezy]

As far as I know, I was the only one to offer help to Jeremy with his record list.

I never really did much in the way of helping other than reviewing the records and giving him some of my input.

I would gladly keep this running if he does end up leaving. I might make a few changes to it tho.

BTW, I would gladly get banned for 2 bags!

[mosher]

This is so fucking stupid.

Sorry Matt, I don't support this at all. I love you but this is petty and childish and selfish. YOU (and like a couple randoms??) want him gone because he rubs you the wrong way.


Jeremy is right to be bitter at the footbag world, I think he makes a great point that WAY too many people are complacent and willing to just play the sport and maybe go to events if someone else is willing to make them happen.


Frankly, I think the people that don't like Jeremy just don't fucking 'get' him.

Such a stupid thread.

[Texta]

Oh, and if you ever feel like paying me the $200 you took out of my Nestle paycheck without my consent, my paypal is kensomolinos at yahoo. Feel free to add four years of interest if you like. Just thought I'd mention it before you leave.

That's just the fee he charges for you getting the chance to hang out with him. The first 30 minutes is free so you're lucky it was only $200. It could be worse, when his parents kicked him out of home he asked if he could stay at my place for a few days and ended up living there for over 6 months without ever discussing it.

[mc]

Tom, if you don't support it, complain to Jeremy. He's the one that accepted my offer. I'm not forcing him to do anything.

Here's what happened:

1. I rashly made the offer, expecting him not to accept, within 15 minutes of waking up. It was more of an insult than a genuine offer, but nonetheless, I made it.

2. He accepted the offer, expecting me not to follow through. He also stated that "If I don't get them, I'll be able to laugh at your inability to keep your word".

Now, I wouldn't want to give the community the impression that I'm so wishy-washy that I would reneg on my offer. Also, I don't really like Jeremy, and it's not a big deal to stitch 10 bags. I'm 60% done, and I only stitched one bag today. I expect to have these in the mail by monday, after I record a hand-rolling stress test on each bag to make sure they're fit for consumption.

Basically, I was caught off-guard when he accepted, but then I thought about it... and all the times I've been frustrated by him, and wanted to speak up, but didn't, because I know that he's willing to put way more energy into arguing than I am, much earlier in the conflict process than I am. I thought of all the condescending remarks and uninvited criticisms and the endless, unbending justification of it all.

Then I thought of his tendency to be condescending to one person in one thread, and not understand when he's treated like he is a condescending person by another person in another thread... as if it is a selective state of being that only comes into play for the brief moment that he condescends.

Then I started to feel better about him accepting my offer.

So, last Jeremy and I spoke, we had an agreement. I don't plan on going back on it.

edit - but say I was to do something about this to change the direction it's going. Exactly what should that be; apologize to Jeremy for making my offer, ask his forgiveness, and ask him to please stay? NOT gonna happen.

[King Monkey]

Frankly, I think the people that don't like Jeremy just don't fucking 'get' him.

+1

[Jeremy]

edit

[Jeremy]

Thanks Tom, Ian.

You're right, it is a stupid thread.

Never the less, me moving on from modified is not a bad idea, especially now my brother is posting here, who I have on ignore, but has such a long history of talking shit about people that I can guess the gist of what he's saying, and due to his attitude I pretty much avoid every place where I may have to interact with him. It's frustrating that somebody with no interest in footbag would come here just to attack me, but I'm not going to go into the details at all. Be assured that my "side" of the story if fairly different to his.

Anyway getting 10 free bags for leaving the forum seems like a pretty good deal, given the circumstances.

I am certainly not perfect and although I strive to be, it's more that I hate getting things wrong, than I like getting them right. My impatience with some people on this forum has been unfortunate and although I've tried to make more of an effort, it obviously hasn't worked. Anyway the people who I get on well with (which is almost everybody I meet in person, and a few others), have my contact details, so I'm sure we can stay in contact.

Not that I'm gone just yet, I'll hang around until I get my bags or Matt might change his mind.

In Matt's defense, I can understand getting so frustrated that you'd say things you would later regret - I do that all the time. While his offer certainly is childish, it was at a pretty good time for me and I didn't accept it to call his bluff, but because it gave me a good excuse to leave this place with the bonus of 10 bags. I didn't think he' follow through, but I hoped that he would.

Anyway, I'm not sure this post had much of a point. I will write something even more pretentious when I do leave

[Jeremy]

Re; adding filler;

Yes many people have pointed out to me that you don't need to cut open bags to add filler to them. I knew that. That was an exaggeration and I'm sorry for making it. I do, however, not have any filler, and would much prefer bags that are immediately ready to use. I don't think that's particularly unreasonable.

Anyway I will endevour to write more literally and in a clearer manner in the short time that I remain on this forum.

[Sporatical_Distractions]

We may as well change the name of this topic to something else.

p.s. I love reading this topic