Online Footbag Coaching Program (Updated)

Footbag videos and footbag related videos such as takraw, freestyle soccer, etc.
Jorden
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Online Footbag Coaching Program (Updated)

Post by Jorden » 18 Sep 2011 09:09

Hey all,

I'd like to unveil my new project called Online Footbag Coaching.

How it works:
1) Edit a 5 minute video of your skills (kicks & stalls, single dexes, sets, osis, spinning, ducking, etc.) with alternating and repeating moves
2)Upload the video to YouTube (unlisted if preferred) or send it to me directly through other means (Yousendit, hosting site, etc.) to jorden.moir@gmail.com.
3) I give full analysis to your game and describe in detail how to correct any inefficiencies or form problems. I take your 5 minute video and re-cord it using my own voiceover, along with slow-motion, freeze-frames while pointing with my cursor.
4) I then send you the new video via E-mail and you provide a donation based on your level of satisfaction. (Donations can be made via PayPal to jorden.moir@gmail.com)

Here is the first sample, featuring Roy Klein from Israel!

Pt 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxqK1JNuQOI
Pt 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ1MgSRyDtI
Pt 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpG0XVbp56Q

Note: video quality will improve once I get more familiar with the software. :)

A follow-up analysis (3+ months later) can then be carried out and progress can be tracked with next steps provided.

I can also make you a fully personalized video where I film myself demonstrating stretches, warm-up exercises and drills that I recommend for you.

Jorden
Last edited by Jorden on 19 Sep 2011 14:22, edited 7 times in total.
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janis
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Re: NEW: Online Footbag Coaching with Jorden!

Post by janis » 18 Sep 2011 09:46

I think this is a great idea!
Jorden wrote:My question to you is -- is this something you would be interested in partaking in? If so, what would you be willing to pay for this kind of service?
Yes to both.

Also would you be willing to make a clipper form tutorial video that covers some of the stuff we talked about at that kick? I'd be willing to pay you to make this for the benefit of the footbag community!

I've made tutorial videos/ coaching videos for a website before and I would be keen to share some of my knowledge on this matter!

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sen
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Post by sen » 18 Sep 2011 17:05

Really cool idea. I'd be very interested in taking part in this. I'm not at all sure what I would pay for it though. I'm really bad at judging things worth.

I also think it would be cool if you gave people a choice of whether they want the videos to be available publicly or not, and maybe offered a small discount to those that allow you to publish them. Anyways, great work!

Jorden
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Post by Jorden » 18 Sep 2011 17:22

I also think it would be cool if you gave people a choice of whether they want the videos to be available publicly or not, and maybe offered a small discount to those that allow you to publish them. Anyways, great work!
Right right. I forgot to mention -- any future video analyses would be sent to the player directly (online or a physical copy through mail) and not broadcasted unless specifically requested. Roy was generous enough to be part of the video beta test which I'm using as promo for the program. :)
Jorden Moir

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PoisonTaffy
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Post by PoisonTaffy » 19 Sep 2011 05:23

Just for the record, I thought Jorden decided not to go for it. If I knew it would go online I would've worn a tshirt, got a haircut, and like, tried to suck less :oops:

But it's all good. I'm sure you guys and girls can survive some blurry nipples and a jewfro.
"Childhood is short, immaturity is forever"

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Post by MathieuGM » 19 Sep 2011 05:52

Don'T worry Roy, you are always sexy, even shitless haha!

For the idea Jorden, i thnk it's a good one. I'm not sure i would use the service, but i think some people might be interested in a project like that for sure!

Mat
Last edited by MathieuGM on 19 Sep 2011 07:17, edited 1 time in total.

skankin
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Post by skankin » 19 Sep 2011 06:45

as with anything footbag related, nothing is free. I'd be willing to pay up to 20$ for that service.

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Post by C-Fan » 19 Sep 2011 09:22

MathieuGM wrote:Don'T worry Roy, you are always sexy, even shitless haha!
I think he's especially sexy shitless. The alternative is pretty unsexy. :?

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Post by RipWalker » 19 Sep 2011 09:32

I'm starting to think that Ken can just scroll down a page full-speed and pick up things like that... haha. That and anagrams... pro.
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Post by Anz » 19 Sep 2011 10:58

skankin wrote:as with anything footbag related, nothing is free.
You get a lot from the footbag community, of which you'd have to pay in other sports. For example videos and tips from pros.
I get a lot of contacts asking for advice, even from people I don't know on YouTube and I always reply.

For everyone who think they cannot afford to pay Jorden, I always give advices free of charge, and I know so do many other pros. (I don't mean to step on your toes, Jorden)

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Post by C-Fan » 19 Sep 2011 11:05

+1 Anz.

skankin
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Post by skankin » 19 Sep 2011 12:03

okay Anz,

lots of things are free, forums and videos are, advice can be given by pros. I wasn't saying that nothing was free, but not that many things are free, when you live in north america people are far away, pros aren't that close and to play with good players is not that easy.

anyways I think it's great that you help out players, I'm a fan of your game, but I wouldn't mind paying for the service that Jorden is offering, I think that he or other people deserve remuneration for that kind of work. Not everyone values work the same way, but I think that it would help if people started giving back a bit more and being less stingy when it comes to money.( in no mean I want to discredit you and I hope it didn't come like that)

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Post by C-Fan » 19 Sep 2011 12:22

skankin wrote:as with anything footbag related, nothing is free.
skankin wrote: I wasn't saying that nothing was free,
:lol:

In all seriousness though, it's Jorden's right to offer advice for a fee if he wants to, just as it's up to the community to decide whether they're willing to pay a price. I'd be curious to see what kind of a market there is for this sort of service.

For me personally, I feel that footbag is a small community with trouble recruiting and retaining new players. I tend to feel that charging a fee for advice erects an additional barrier to learning. That said, who knows? Maybe people will value advice more if they have to pay for it? I just feel that (lack of) money shouldn't be what holds a developing player back. I make videos, throw tournies, and give advice to beginners for free, since I think that's the most effective way to spread the sport. Some might argue I can afford to do that because I have a good job, but then, I sacrificed a lot of my prime footbag years to pursue degrees at difficult schools.

Ultimately, there's not wrong answer on whether or not to charge to teach footbag. It's really a philosophical question. But I did feel compelled to agree with Anz to point out that, in footbag, quite a lot is indeed free.

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Post by Jorden » 19 Sep 2011 12:48

I don't have a problem against pros giving advice for free. To be honest, I think it's a really great thing and we need more of it!

Giving a few written tips in an E-mail/forum from a video is one thing, but actually studying EVERY aspect of that video from a scientific approach, making notes and turning it into full-length analysis video (30 mins from 5 in Roy's case) with actual voiceovers, freezeframes and highlighting key areas with the cursor (with possible graphics later on) is a whole other ball game. There is a substantial amount of labour involved.

With a growing number of shredders training solo and clubs everywhere evaporating, getting instruction from the internet is an obvious best choice.
The more direct and personalized the instruction, the faster the player can improve.

With English as my primary language, I'm able to go into a great depth about a player's game describing complicated ideas and concepts. I live and breathe footbag so deeply that is has now become my career. My life is now getting busier so I simply don't have the time to volunteer this type of in depth help to players.

All that being said, I've decided that the program will be donations based for the first 5 participants (starting now). After the service has been provided, it is entirely up to you to deem what you feel the help was worth.

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Post by landon palmer » 19 Sep 2011 15:28

$5-$10 each lesson (imo)

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Post by F[uns]tylin' Eclectic » 19 Sep 2011 19:12

I'd be interested in this. Jorden, you definitely have yourself a customer here... Just don't know when.

I liked how thorough you were with Roy's footage. I could really use something like that for even small things like foot placement and people have been saying I use too much energy in Atomic sets, and I'd like to get that one solved once and for good along with other things.

I'll be getting back to you once I do some filming... Busy with school atm, so I don't know exactly when that might be.
Nick Polini

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Post by PoisonTaffy » 20 Sep 2011 00:36

5$-10$ for a 30 minutes video is ridiculously cheap. Even 20$ is a steal, considering that making a 30 minutes video takes longer than 30 minutes.
I tend to feel that charging a fee for advice erects an additional barrier to learning.
I can't relate to this argument. The alternative for people like me, who don't live around other players, is not getting ANY advice. I'd rather pay a little for guaranteed good advice rather than waste my time practicing the wrong things, and only discover that once a year if I'm fortunate enough to attend a competition. I considered quitting footbag after realizing how off I was playing the last two years.

This is like a personalized tricks of the trade, and people bitch about paying even less for it. Really, I don't get it.
"Childhood is short, immaturity is forever"

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Post by skankin » 20 Sep 2011 17:34

I think that some people like bitching just because that's how they get off. I could name a few most prob.

I strongly agree with you on everything else.

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Post by Lackey82 » 20 Sep 2011 20:16

Jorden - great great idea.

Let's compare -

Pro Golf lessons are $50 or more per half-hour.

Pro Surfing lessons are $100 each.

Pro Tennis lessons are in the same range.

Non-specialized personal trainers are $50-$70 an hour.

Sure, these are surely more commercial than Footbag, but at the same time, Jorden is about as pro as anyone in any sport when it comes to dedication to form, posture, and efficiency. Since the feedback above was 30 mins but did not include prep time etc, it's safe to say that the workload was between that and an hour at least.

However - video analysis is not identical to real-life feedback. There's no travel, membership fees (as with golf and tennis), licensing, and other cost-increasing factors. Also, video is not real-time. The feedback given is useless unless the player is savvy enough to understand and implement it effectively. Without real-time feedback and positive reinforcement, the actual impact of the feedback is limited, and theoretically could be almost null. To me, this is the single biggest roadblock in this proposition. I'm sure I'd hear the advice, think about it, and go right back to my bad habits.

All things considered, you still have room for debate. My personal opinion is that the depth of feedback above and time spent is worth $30-$40. If you had personal, one-on-one hour-long lessons with a pro of Jorden's caliber, you should be looking at $60-$75.

For personal advice, I would pay that. For the time it takes to edit the video to be sent paired with the lack of real-time feedback, I would not pay for the video service myself.

Best of luck Jorden - there cannot be anything bad about offering this service - I know you have a lot of good advice and there are a lot of people who need the help - many of which are a world away.
Joshua Lackey
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Post by Jorden » 21 Sep 2011 08:21

Lackey82 wrote:it's safe to say that the workload was between that and an hour at least.
Making the video alone was about 3 hours. It took about 10 takes to say exactly what I wanted to say without stutters or not describing clear enough. As you can see it's not something I treat lightly!
That's not including prep time (learning the software, making notes, developing the business plan, etc) nor does it include video rendering or uploading, which was another couple hours. So 5, maybe 6 hours total?
Lackey82 wrote:Also, video is not real-time. The feedback given is useless unless the player is savvy enough to understand and implement it effectively. Without real-time feedback and positive reinforcement, the actual impact of the feedback is limited, and theoretically could be almost null. To me, this is the single biggest roadblock in this proposition. I'm sure I'd hear the advice, think about it, and go right back to my bad habits.
The player has to want to get better. I would expect note-taking on the other side as well. It is important a player to always think about their game critically, and be fully self aware during their sessions. Footbag training is not a mere going through the motions -- quite the opposite! The question is then always "how can I improve on this?". Teaching yourself how to throw away bad technique in an instant is essential to quick progression. Never hold on to your technique. Be prepared to exchange it instantly with something that is more efficient/safer/easier for you.
A key tool to critical thinking towards shred is the self-reflection insight acquired from filming your own sessions.
Lackey82 wrote:For personal advice, I would pay that. For the time it takes to edit the video to be sent paired with the lack of real-time feedback, I would not pay for the video service myself.
The lag time between videos will never be an issue. If someone plays in the morning and edits it in the afternoon, I can film my video and send it to them by mid-evening. On certain days there can be less than a day turnaround (at a busy time 2 days tops). The instruction can be given on a session that took place the same day. There is no risk that the advice will be outdated or stale in any way, unless the player sends me a much older video, which isn't recommended.

There is a great solution for anyone who wants real-time feedback and positive reenforcement. Using Ustream and a webcam, you can stream your session real-time and I'll sign in with a mic and capture the entire video + coaching with my software. That is something completely new to me, so I'd like to extend an invitation to any player out there that wants to participate in a free promotional beta test! Please PM if interested. :D

In the future, it would be possible (when I get a new computer) to do a 2-way webcam coaching session with 2-way interaction and feedback as well.

Jorden
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